CE 7

[JACkory]

You know, I can't speak for all Christians...only myself. But there seems to be this perception amongst unbelievers that Christians think they have it all sussed out. I know I don't. The world is just too full of ideas, concepts, philosophies and differing viewpoints for me to ever write 'em all off as horse hockey. I have a deep respect for the seekers and I don't condemn those who choose not to accept religion of any sort. I've been there, and I understand the viewpoint.
We can at least agree on this bottom line: Life is one complicated motherfucker. Anyone who claims to know it all is a fool and a liar.
As a Christian I have accepted that Jesus Christ was not just "anyone", but God Himself incarnate, so I believe Him and I believe IN Him. Not myself or my ability to understand all that goes on around me or the divine purpose behind it all...
You don't have to accept that.
In fact, if you have serious issues with accepting that and choose not to, maybe you shouldn't worry about it, just go your merry way and do your own thing and let me do mine.
I mean, the only reason I jumped into this thread (breaking a long sabbatical from the boards, I might add) was because I was offended by someone calling religion a "useless tool", a "waste of time" and a "fairy tale". I mean, come on! Can't you see how self-righteous and condescending that is? Infinitely more self-righteous than the believer who knows how to "live and let live", I think.
But I'm not going to descend into an abyss of personal insults, and I fear that's where this is heading (by the tone of the last few posts, that is). So hey, Pissin...best wishes. Good luck to you on your journey and I hope I haven't given you the impression that I think any less of you or your opinions than I do anyone else in cyberspace or in the real world.
Peace.

[Ampage]

I already told you I agreed with what Chrisfan said. No sense in repeating it.
Although, I do take umbrage with the banana reference.

[pissin2]

Sorry Amp, time to beat the horse again. Don't yell at me, yell at Jack!

But there seems to be this perception amongst unbelievers that Christians think they have it all sussed out.

For me it's the totally opposite. I think they have nothing sussed out. I ask the how and why questions, and the answers I get back are usually "just because" or "I just know". I can explain to you fully why I don't believe in god, and I'm pretty sure you understand it. As you said you've been there. This is why I think the whole thing is so strange. If I were to go around telling people I believe in Santa Clause because I have faith and he really exists, with no proof to back it up, then I risk getting put in a straight jacket and locked up. But if I say god is real and I believe in him, then that's ok. I guess I just having trouble accepting the fact that this is the kind of world we live in, where so many people believe in something that they cannot prove and cannot even explain why they believe in it. But hey, as long as you don't bother me while doing it, then Amen to ya brother.

[Ampage]

So are you saying you don’t believe in George Washington? Or did you actually meet him?

[pissin2]

C'mon, think about what you just said.

[Ampage]

I have, so what’s your point?
You believe in George Washington because someone told you he existed and you have read about it in books. Same thing, no? Actually, I can feel Gods presence, can’t ever say I have felt Georges, not even when roaming a cherry tree orchard.

[chrisfan]

strat-0 said:

Um, the sky is blue because the wavelengths on the blue end of the spectrum are shorter than the red. The shorter wavelengths at the blue end of the spectrum are scattered by the atmosphere. Just FYI.

"Weekend at Bernie's" - Too funny, Rock!

[edit: Phil and I crossed - I was close...]

Can you tell I paid more attention in social studies classes then science classes? :-)

[chrisfan]

Ampage said:

I have, so what’s your point?
You believe in George Washington because someone told you he existed and you have read about it in books. Same thing, no? Actually, I can feel Gods presence, can’t ever say I have felt Georges, not even when roaming a cherry tree orchard.

If I were going to join the horse beating club, I'd have to say I agree with ampsterpants here.

[theladyofthelake]

Ampage said:

I have, so what’s your point?
You believe in George Washington because someone told you he existed and you have read about it in books. Same thing, no? Actually, I can feel Gods presence, can’t ever say I have felt Georges, not even when roaming a cherry tree orchard.

One major difference that I can see. There is evidence that George Washington existed. There are portraits. His signature still remains on documents. There are monuments created in his image because he was a flesh and blood being and people saw his face and knew what he looked like.

Unless you want to argue that everyone back then was delusional and just made him up? I suppose that's entirely within the realm of possibility.

[JACkory]

Pissin2 said:

But there seems to be this perception amongst unbelievers that Christians think they have it all sussed out.
For me it's the totally opposite. I think they have nothing sussed out. I ask the how and why questions, and the answers I get back are usually "just because" or "I just know".

You totally misunderstood what I said. That doesn't surprise me, as you seem so hell-bent on winning some elusive argument.
What I said was that there is a perception amongst unbelievers that Christians think they have it all sussed out. I never said anything that would elicit a response such as "it's the totally opposite. I think they have nothing sussed out".
You see, I DID NOT ASK YOU WHAT YOU THOUGHT. I think I already had a good enough understanding of "what you think" about this topic to have been redundant enough to express a need to have it reiterated.
The statement was made primarilly as a response to Thorny's bit about how Christians supposedly think they are right while everyone else is wrong. So what I said, in a nutshell, was that this mindset is likely a result of the unbeliever's PERCEPTION that Christians THINK THEY'VE GOT IT ALL SUSSED OUT, when in actuality most Christians I know, myself included, are just as "in the dark" about a lot of things as anyone else.
Do you see how you've misinterpreted my statement?
And do you also see how you've used that misinterpretation to once again assume a condescending, arrogant pose in your claim that Christians have "NOTHING" sussed out?

You really need to pay more attention to what people are actually saying before you spout off more of your vitriol.

[Philemon]

Georges never tried to walk across the Delaware either ...

[JACkory]

You believe in George Washington because someone told you he existed and you have read about it in books.

I know the point you're trying to make with this, Amp, but it's not really valid, IMO.
Lots of people who have never read a word of the Bible believe in God, and lots of people who have read the Bible cover-to-cover (maybe even studied it) don't believe in God.
George Washington is a historical figure and a HUMAN to boot. Easy enough to verify his existance.
God is Spirit, and by His very nature cannot be comprehended.
May I recommend a book to all, knowing full well that NOONE will bother to read it? The Knowledge of the Holy by A.W. Tozer is a fascinating look at the attributes of God's nature. If one can get past the unflinching religious tone of the book I believe one will find much food for thought.

Also, if I may recommend a website, knowing full well that few if any of you will bother checking it out, the folks at JPUSA are some of the most intelligent and thought-provoking Christian apologists in the country, and I think most of you would enjoy the Cornerstone website, at www.cornerstonemag.com.

[Ampage]

My church is based on Cornerstone. I will have to check that out.

[Thorngrub]

JAC -- I have responded to your reply over on your Spirituality & Religion board, where such a discussion deserves to take place.

(Of course, any who wish to follow that thread are invited to do so -- you'll find it over under "JACkory's Insect Lounge" on the home page.)

[stratman19]

Yasser Arafat is finally dead. Good riddance.