CE9

[Ampage]

Chrisfan said:

Scottsy, I think that you actually nailed my primary reason for thinking that perhaps priests should NOT be married. As I said, I'm not Catholic, nor have I ever been Catholic, so I'm only speaking as an outsider. I recognize that many of the perceptions that I have of the Catholic church could be wrong. But it appears to me that priests have huge responsibilities and expectations placed on them to carry out their work for the church. In addition to the preaching and running a church that protestant ministers do, and the performing of sacraments such as baptism and marriage, they also have things like confession, last rites, etc that protestant ministers do not have. It has always appeared to me that many of the administrative things that are done by lay people in a protestant church are the responsibility of a priest in a Catholic church.

If that is correct, then it leads to the question you touched on -- can a man uphold the responsibilities that he has to his church as a priest AND uphold the responsibilities that he would have to a wife and children? I know what a a difficult balance that can be for my minister, and he does not have all those additional responsibilities placed on him. So, is it possible that it's God's design through the Catholic chruch to NOT create that conflict?

I can understand where you are coming from here but I do not necessarily agree. Priests are not required to live at the church 24/7, they would have time for a family life. Otherwise that would be like saying a priest now albeit single has no other life than the church. I am sure there are examples of that, but I am sure there are examples to the contrary. My church is non-dom so we have pastors and even though they are very busy (one was there this morning calling about a leak in the roof) they all have lives as well. Although my situation is different I suppose because we have many pastors. All in all, if its their will to get married, I would hate to see someone not lead Gods children because of it.

[MrGordon]

you're right RocDoc. i don't deny that I have a hatred for the catholic church and it consumes me sometimes when i get on the subject. it may have ruined my post, maybe not. But nevertheless, i guess i had to just let it out.

I don't deny the pope's stature or his legend. I know he did his best. i just hate the catholic church.

I have a real problem with faith being naturally self deceptive i s'pose, and the works of the organization is to spread the faith. the pope was the representation. my bad.

[RocDoc]

I gotta ask, why this hatred of this specific group/congregation...tho I'll guess it more the organizational hierarchy you truly 'hate'...but why? What from?

Not for this 'self-deception' alone I hope?

However you wish to characterize 'faith', even IF you want to call it by the slightly (IMO) demeaning, diminishing term, 'self-deception'.....but IF you deceive yourself in a constructive and useful manner (which absolutely IS possible, 'fooling' yourself to overcome bad habits) to further achievements which you've set for yourself as goals...or to get yourself beyond a hugely stressful or a self-destructive period of your life without resorting to pharmaceutical means(legal or illegal)...well, then WhyTF not?

Where's the harm?

Structure such as faith-based 'The Church' or the psychology-based(w/some 'god' thrown in, yes)A.A. or N.A. is a means...imperfect, fallible, with all sorts of uncertainby-products, unguaranteed outcomes, but why not use something that's worked for so many before you?

Not everyone has the type of character to intellectualize all their life's problems in a purely intellectual way...

_{...redundant but I gotta go...}

[chrisfan]

MrGordon said:

you're right RocDoc. i don't deny that I have a hatred for the catholic church and it consumes me sometimes when i get on the subject. it may have ruined my post, maybe not. But nevertheless, i guess i had to just let it out.

I don't deny the pope's stature or his legend. I know he did his best. i just hate the catholic church.

I have a real problem with faith being naturally self deceptive i s'pose, and the works of the organization is to spread the faith. the pope was the representation. my bad.

Forgive me if I interpreted it wrong, but your initial post sure did appear to be about faith, and not specifically the Catholic Church. Are you slamming people who have faith in God, or are you now receding to simply slamming the Catholic church? Not that I really see either as being any more tasteful than the other, just pointing out what does not match up.

[chrisfan]

Ampage said:

I can understand where you are coming from here but I do not necessarily agree. Priests are not required to live at the church 24/7, they would have time for a family life. Otherwise that would be like saying a priest now albeit single has no other life than the church. I am sure there are examples of that, but I am sure there are examples to the contrary. My church is non-dom so we have pastors and even though they are very busy (one was there this morning calling about a leak in the roof) they all have lives as well. Although my situation is different I suppose because we have many pastors. All in all, if its their will to get married, I would hate to see someone not lead Gods children because of it.

Maybe I need someone to correct me then. Don't priests usually live on the grounds of the church? I thought they did. I thought that was why there's always a house thing on the property of a Catholic church.

[ScottsyII]

I lived with a Catholic priest for nearly a year. The house was a large one, owned by the Church of course and yes it was on the grounds of the Parish church, but not every one is.... most are at least near or on the same street as the Church itself.

The priest I lived with w3as a nice chap, really giving and friendly, but I deteched a deep set loneliness in the guy, which really has prompted alot of my views on the priesthood and why I think they deserve companionship.

Looks like the Catholic Church will now enter it's nine day mourning period before the petition for a new Pope begins... going to be a very interesting time for catholics like my good self.

But for now we remember and respect the wonderful life of John Paul II.

[chrisfan]

Scottsy, I have to give you a lot of credit ... you've had me thinking about this issue a lot today. Everytime I think I have decided where I stand, the strength of my views on one side of the argument just seem to push me to the other side, if that makes any sense.

[stratman19]

ScottsyII said:

I lived with a Catholic priest for nearly a year. The house was a large one, owned by the Church of course and yes it was on the grounds of the Parish church, but not every one is.... most are at least near or on the same street as the Church itself.

The priest I lived with w3as a nice chap, really giving and friendly, but I deteched a deep set loneliness in the guy, which really has prompted alot of my views on the priesthood and why I think they deserve companionship.

Looks like the Catholic Church will now enter it's nine day mourning period before the petition for a new Pope begins... going to be a very interesting time for catholics like my good self.

But for now we remember and respect the wonderful life of John Paul II.

Yes, John Paul II was a great man. I'm not religious, but I greatly respected that man.

[chrisfan]

Okay, more thoughts on this issue ...

If you look at the purpose and defintion of the church in the bible, I believe that there is a definite idea of the congregation of a church being a family. It's logical then to view the leader of that congregation, the priest, as the father. So then the idea, I would assume, is that a priest's family is his church family. Just as a husband could not sustain two separate families well, a priest could not sustain two families -- a wife and children family and a church family. For the parishoners, it's different, because the level of commitment required to the family in terms of works from the children is different than that of the father.

So, is what is lacking today in the lonliness Scottsy spoke of the companionship of a family for priests, or the recognition of the duty that parishoners have towards the priest as his family?

[chrisfan]

I think the most touching thing I have heard reported about the Pope today is the report of his final word just before he died - "Amen". It gave me chills when I first heard it.

[stratman19]

I hadn't heard that. That is something...and so very appropriate.

[Proud]

R.I.P. Pope John Paul II

I can't describe the sorrow and sense of loss the world is feeling right now. I hope that he's on to a better place.

[rockkid]

Why scratch your head in wonder? It happens all the time.

Well thank god that’s not as frequent here.
Yes it does happen but most groups/businesses include further contact permission boxes on their forms & I must say are fairly good at honoring when the NO is checked off.

Not catholic either (high anglican so not to much difference though I guess) so I’ll ask since I can’t really remember.
On average how long does the appointment of the next pope take?
My mind keeps telling me two weeks but memory fails on this one.

[ScottsyII]

I had some info on that...

Generally speaking the Church takes a little mourning time for it's former pope... generally around nine days, then the process of electing a new pope begins...

Pretty much a vote cast by all the cardinals from the various nations where the catholic church is active... it's a lengthy process, but of course the church does need to be careful to chjoose the *right* person to be pope...

[maarts]

The cajoling for positions though has already started...

From what I gather, the Church wants a slightly elder pope to reign in another lengthy term for one person to lead the Church...

Currently the Cardinal of Rome is the frontrunner, but also the names of Cardinal Ratzinger, a German and a French nominee, all on the more conservative brink of the catholic church are mentioned.

One thing is for sure- there will be no American or Australian pope.


The conclave can take up to two months.