CE9

[ScottsyII]

I also am a terrible typist, and it's too late at night and i am too lazy to correct it all.... :-)

[chrisfan]

I have to admit that I am very torn on the question of whether or not priests should be allowed to marry. (being that I'm not Catholic, I also recognize that there's probably a lot about the issue that I don't understand ... that being said, here are my two cents).

On the one hand, I appreciate what what Scottsy said and sometimes agree with it.. Marriage is such a huge componet of life for so many. Isn't the best way for a priest to understand it to experience it? And, as Scottsy said, the declining numbers of priests could be blamed on the expectation of celibacy.

However, the numbers going into the ministry in protestant sects of Christianity are also dwindling ... and celibacy cannot be blamed for that. And, I can't say that I see a problem with putting a higher expectation of commitment on priests than is put on other Catholics in their commitment to God.

I guess the best way for me to put my stand on the issue is that I can understand why many say that the isue of celibacy needs to be addressed, but i don't think it has the slam dunk "of course it must be changed" obviousness to the issue that many do.

[MrGordon]

I don't get the whole idea of faith. What's the deal anyway. seriously, you can all have all the faith you want, but it is an ultimately unknowable reality. even the word 'perfectness' has no definitive or knowable meaning when we continute to break our ideas down. Why do we all latch onto what other people latch onto for an idea of faith? why do we follow these traditions? why don't we ask ourselves these questions and instead give our lives to an irrational ideal of perfectness?

im not saying i don't think about God, or think about the possibilities, but to cling my life to it, to lead a path of one way and rejecting others? to use God as moral justification, or reasoning? i just don't get it. Isn't it 2005? don't we have science, philosophy, social science as well etc? why is faith fancied over reason by so many?

my point is, there is no answer, stop pretending you have it, and stop hoping others have it. lets not fight and bicker, lets enjoy the days of our lives, sip coffee, share jokes and laugh, be happy to be alive, be happy to face the path of possible nothingness with a smile and to be brave. we can make new discoveries in logic and math, go farther into space and discover whats tehre for us to discover. shouldnt religious norms teach us to be doing this? rather than bickering over some dying vegatble? because seriously, even the Pope knew deep down he could be just dirt.

Strat, i wanna apologize. i got heated up too and made an emotional post. I just don't understand anyone who supports war, but also defends life? WTF? but anyway, i hope all can be ok.

for the next month or so the frikkin news is gonna be poisoned with the pope. i bet deep in his heart, he was as confused as the rest of us. poor soul. but he lived the lie right till the end.

[ScottsyII]

Oh yeah, I can see how the issue isn't so clear cut too, thats for sure... a Priest generally is a highly committed individual to the cause of God and the Church, and its a tough, tough balance betweenthat and a family and married life...

I guess I come at it from a particularly personal angle, where if allowed to Marry I would have once considered entering the priesthood...

That was a long time ago, though, and I'm not so sure I'd change back to that now.... I'd DEFINITELY not consider it over marriage as I love Mellie far more than anything else in this world...

But of course therein lays the dilemma with the whole celibacy question... what happens when you must choose between youyr wife and your God...

Well, personally I feel that God made us to be companions, and loving a woman or a spouse is no sin, and in fact it's something that should bring you CLOSER to god...

And how are priests to understand contemporary families and society if they do not live it themselves?

I don't believe God would want us to restrict our love for anyone... God would obviously want us to find the right WAY to love another, hence the Church's rules against adultery are valid, yet why would God want to restrict someone from being committed to a woman in his life?!

It is in my view one of the most Godly acts one can perfrom, to love someone wholly, throughout their lives...

and because I amexhausted, I won't get started yet on why I bel;ieve women should be able to become priests...

If there is such a thing, I guess you could be a radical catholic...

[Rit]

Chrisfan, you sound like you're reciting from a cue-card.
but i'll bite....

Well congratulations, death merchants. Your decades old campaign to de-value human life has been a smashing success. What living human being do we get to starve to death next? Rolling right on down that ol' slippery slope of euthanasia...

what an accusation. mostly because it was as flaky as it gets. As a Canadian, i was not one of the ones accused, since Stratman's politics seem to be working under some specific definitions and is obviously the vision of a ferret. Well, Stratman, the campaign is moving along quite nicely. We're making stops in key states this week for a final rallying push.

Who's next on your hit list, death merchants? The elderly? The infirm? The mentally retarded? What burden to society is next? Can I make a suggestion? Given the looming crisis of Social Security/Medicare, I vote for murdering the elderly next. You know, that pesky ol' baby boom generation. Hey, I'm a part of it, so feel free to take me out too. I don't play favorites.

aww sheee-it, Stratman's bringing it old school here:)
self-righteous, morally aggrandising, and hierarchical in his litany of the damned. i love it.

After all, human life is no more valuable than a pile of dog shit, is it death merchants?

how quaint. this is rich coming from an avowed supporter of military might. Why support military might? Because you're in pursuit of a quality of life that needs to be maintained, obviously. So why suddenly turn that on its head and hinge your values on purist definition of life in-and-of-itself? Pretty convenient, if you ask me.

I'm sick of your culture of death, I'm sick of your moral relativism. I still believe in a right and a wrong. Obviously, you (Left) do not.

Right.

Talk about a fucked up set of priorities...

wow. yeah, talk about that. talk about your shitheaded narrow focus today, as you rail "emotionally" about this hopelessly mediarizaed topic, conveniently airing your petty horizons. but tomorrow, when your sense of self-importance has died down, you'll be back to your ass-kicking, murder-them-evil-ones ways, while we remain as diseased as ever, in your eyes.

Sometimes, you people really piss me off. Sometimes I wonder if it's even worth it. Why do I invest money, time, and effort to advance my philosophy...I feel like I'm on a sinking ship. I'll continue to fight the good fight, even as I think I'll probably lose in the end.

if only this were true. that "sinking ship" feeling makes the most sense in your whole post. You can keep your moral principles to yourself. They're only the embarrassing shackles of a hopelessly self-righeous mind, who cares for "human life" only as much as you can excerpt a vindication in the name of something else from it.

Goddamned death merchants.

[Rit]

im not saying i don't think about God, or think about the possibilities, but to cling my life to it, to lead a path of one way and rejecting others? to use God as moral justification, or reasoning? i just don't get it. Isn't it 2005? don't we have science, philosophy, social science as well etc? why is faith fancied over reason by so many?

my point is, there is no answer, stop pretending you have it, and stop hoping others have it. lets not fight and bicker, lets enjoy the days of our lives, sip coffee, share jokes and laugh, be happy to be alive, be happy to face the path of possible nothingness with a smile and to be brave. we can make new discoveries in logic and math, go farther into space and discover whats tehre for us to discover. shouldnt religious norms teach us to be doing this? rather than bickering over some dying vegatble? because seriously, even the Pope knew deep down he could be just dirt.

Gordo, you brought up very interesting points. i wouldn't mind if you continued this on the religion board at some point. basically I think faith is misunderstood. and reason (pure reason) the great horned devil in disguise..

[Ampage]

Okay, most of you know that I am far from computer literate. But can anyone in 4th graders terms explain to me how to burn just ONE song off a cd onto another? I want to make a cd with a bunch of different songs from different cds but cannot figure out how. Is it possible to copy a song off a cd onto your hard drive?

[MrGordon]

YOu mean the pure reason that Kant critiqued, in his book, suitably titled, 'Critique Of Pure Reason'?

[MrGordon]

Amp, use WIndows Media Player and go to rip, or rip music, or copy music whatever its called. it should have all the songs ready to rip to the harddrive, so uncheck the ones you dont want and rip away.

if you can find it, make sure you pick a destination folder you want.

[Ampage]

Thanks, I will try that.

[chrisfan]

Scottsy, I think that you actually nailed my primary reason for thinking that perhaps priests should NOT be married. As I said, I'm not Catholic, nor have I ever been Catholic, so I'm only speaking as an outsider. I recognize that many of the perceptions that I have of the Catholic church could be wrong. But it appears to me that priests have huge responsibilities and expectations placed on them to carry out their work for the church. In addition to the preaching and running a church that protestant ministers do, and the performing of sacraments such as baptism and marriage, they also have things like confession, last rites, etc that protestant ministers do not have. It has always appeared to me that many of the administrative things that are done by lay people in a protestant church are the responsibility of a priest in a Catholic church.

If that is correct, then it leads to the question you touched on -- can a man uphold the responsibilities that he has to his church as a priest AND uphold the responsibilities that he would have to a wife and children? I know what a a difficult balance that can be for my minister, and he does not have all those additional responsibilities placed on him. So, is it possible that it's God's design through the Catholic chruch to NOT create that conflict?

[Galactus]

It's official, RIP Pope John Paul II.

[alexiscarrington]

www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/04/01/buchanan.attacked.ap/

Poor Pat Buchanan. I was embarrassed about this then I found out it WASN'T a western michigan student, so I felt a little better. People need to just sit back and listen sometime instead of reacting like this.

[RocDoc]

_{for the next month or so the frikkin news is gonna be poisoned with the pope. i bet deep in his heart, he was as confused as the rest of us. poor soul. but he lived the lie right till the end.}

You had me saying 'All right, makes sense' right down to the very end...and then THAT?

"Poisoned"?

Boy-o-boy is THAT some simple-minded shit.

Oh wait.
Could you be one of those who thought that as much as Ronald Reagan had zero to do with prompting the downfall and eventual breakup of the USSR...so neither did one Karel Wojtyla?

_{Which WOULD be outright fucking cluelessness and the conversation must stop right there.}

Or do you feel that he's been a worthless (and ultimately 'confused') drag just generally and has done nothing to MERIT some serious hero-worship?

The man was a giant. VERY much in the mold of any great leader of the past whom you could mention.

...and within an extremely solid unshakeable belief in this 'lie' of which you speak.

Plz begin to go back to speaking sense again.

~

Rest In Peace

_{...and mingle effortlessly among the most impactful people who have ever drawn breath...}

Pope John Paul II

[maarts]

Sad to hear that Pope John Paul II has died but I'm glad he now has eternal peace.