PEW proves we have a soul

[Galactus]

Here it is, man, do with it what you will.

[rockysigman]

I've got my notepad ready.

[Adam]

Get your lighters ready!

[Kensterberg]

I've got my hands in my pockets, and I'm waiting for the day to come.

[frag]

I've got soul.
Not a soul, but soul nonetheless.

[Kensterberg]

frag said:

I've got soul.
Not a soul, but soul nonetheless.

Well of course you do ... anyone as awesome as you are just has to have soul.

Fillet of soul ... with some wild rice on the side.

[frag]

Totally wild.

[shin]

I've got soul, but I'm not a soldier.

[sisyphus]

^haha.

so not botherin to prove the soul anymore, wageman?

[Adam]

"I've got soul, huh, and I'm super bad, HEY!"

[pauledwardwagemann]

To get started on this, I need anyone who wants to participate to answer a few simple questions:

~Do you refute the evidence that the universe is in motion?

~Do you refute that all matter in the universe (which includes the matter that makes up man) derives from the big bang?

~Do you refute that a force greater than man governs the matter in our universe (and since man is made up of matter, this means this matter also governs the matter in man)

~Do you think that that those laws of physics that govern our universe are contained only within our universe, or could forces outside our universe be affecting them?

~Is our universe defined only by what mankind can percieve and deduce of it?

~Do you refute that the force, energy, spark (whatever you want to call it) that caused the Big Bang and set the universe in motion is responsible for the laws of physics that govern matter in our universe?

~Is it possible that since man has consciousness, and that all tht matter that eixsts in mankind which has gone to create his consciousness is also available in the universe? And the fact that it came from the universe that that at least opens the possibility that the universe itself could have consciousness?

[shin]

*passes roach clip*

[Kensterberg]

Against my better judgment ... here are my answers to your questions, PEW. Now you can commence to laying out this whole proof for a soul. And it had better be pretty fucking good ...


~Do you refute the evidence that the universe is in motion? Which evidence? I object to this question as overbroad and insufficiently specific so as to produce a reasonably concise and specific answer. That said, all matter in the known universe at present is best described as being in some motion, at least in the form of the inherent vibrations in matter which is at a temperature greater than absolute zero.

~Do you refute that all matter in the universe (which includes the matter that makes up man) derives from the big bang? At present, our best hypothesis is that all matter in the known universe is the result of processes which can be traced back to a single point in space-time. At this point, this "singularity" (for lack of a better term) the rules of physics as we know them appear to no longer apply, and so we are not able to (at this time) hypothesize as to what the conditions may have been prior to this singularity.

~Do you refute that a force greater than man governs the matter in our universe (and since man is made up of matter, this means this matter also governs the matter in man) Again, I have to object to this question as overly broad and vaguely worded. Specifically, the term "force" could imply consciousness, which puts the cart before the horse in this discussion. Also, it implies that there is a qualitative arrangement of "forces" in the universe -- i.e. that the force of gravity is somehow "greater" or "less than" the strong atomic force, or that "man" is somehow a "force" which acts on the universe in the same manner as gravity. So on the whole, I have to disagree with this statement, as it conflates conscious action with elementary forces of physics.

~Do you think that that those laws of physics that govern our universe are contained only within our universe, or could forces outside our universe be affecting them? This is a stupid question, frankly. Everything which we currently have any knowledge of is contained within this universe, and the explanations which we have been able to devise for the phenamenon observed within our universe do not require any extra-universal forces to explain them. In the absence of concrete proof of anything what so ever outside our universe, the answer to this question has to be, "no."

~Is our universe defined only by what mankind can percieve and deduce of it? Our understanding of the universe is certainly defined by what mankind can percieve and deduce of it. Whether the universe itself is is beside the point: if it is outside the ability of humankind to percieve or deduce, then it is irrelevant to us. You could just as well try to explain commercial fishing to a tuna ... it is beyond the (apparent) ability of the tuna to understand why Charlie was here a moment ago, and now he's been pulled out of the water and is gone forever. Even there, however, the tuna has the ability to percieve that a foreign being is acting on his fellow fish, and that Charlie is gone and not coming back. Our hypothetical tuna could well learn that when certain conditions are met, it is much more likely that such unwanted incursions to his world are more or less likely to occur. Given sufficient inteligence, the tuna could one day learn what is going on around them not through devine revelation but because they are living in the same world as we, and are governed by the same physical laws/forces.

~Do you refute that the force, energy, spark (whatever you want to call it) that caused the Big Bang and set the universe in motion is responsible for the laws of physics that govern matter in our universe? We don't know. We can't know -- that's why physicists refer to the Big Bang as a singularity. Do you refute that the laws of physics controlled the expansion of the universe and caused it to begin, and that the laws of physics are what governs the continued expansion of the (known) universe?

~Is it possible that since man has consciousness, and that all tht matter that eixsts in mankind which has gone to create his consciousness is also available in the universe? Is it possible that monkeys could fly out of my butt? Sure, it's possible, but is there any evidence at all for it ever happening? No.

And the fact that it came from the universe that that at least opens the possibility that the universe itself could have consciousness? Again, is there any evidence at all that the universe as some sort of cohesive whole has consciousness? Just as importantly, if it does, how would we know? It sounds like you're going to compare us with neurons in a brain, and that's a specious comparison that misunderstands both subjects.


There ya go PEW. Have at it. Prove that I've got a soul ... so I can go sell this fucker, 'cause my life will surely be easier without one.

[pauledwardwagemann]

kenholzman said:

~Is our universe defined only by what mankind can percieve and deduce of it?
Our understanding of the universe is certainly defined by what mankind can percieve and deduce of it. Whether the universe itself is is beside the point: if it is outside the ability of humankind to percieve or deduce, then it is irrelevant to us. You could just as well try to explain commercial fishing to a tuna ... it is beyond the (apparent) ability of the tuna to understand why Charlie was here a moment ago, and now he's been pulled out of the water and is gone forever. Even there, however, the tuna has the ability to percieve that a foreign being is acting on his fellow fish, and that Charlie is gone and not coming back. Our hypothetical tuna could well learn that when certain conditions are met, it is much more likely that such unwanted incursions to his world are more or less likely to occur. Given sufficient inteligence, the tuna could one day learn what is going on around them not through devine revelation but because they are living in the same world as we, and are governed by the same physical laws/forces.

You believe in evolution correct? So if you go backwards in time do you think that life always had consciousness? Or idd it evolve over time? For instance maybe the sense of feel was evolved, then later the sence of taste, then smell, then the sence of hearing or sight. Certainly it seems unlikely that all of these senses just evolved all at once over night, right? It could have taken millions of years to go from having three senses to having four then five, no? So who's to say we are not in the middle of evolving a sixth sense? Or a seventh or an eigth? All of whcih will enable us to better percieve the universe we inhabit. So if you open your mind, you will see that there is more about the universe that we do not percieve, and it IS relevent to us. In fact the search to better understand the universe and attempt to percieve the part of the universe that we cannot see now withthe limitations of our five senses, might be the most relevent thing man can do. At least in terms of Evolving.

kenholzman said:

~Do you think that that those laws of physics that govern our universe are contained only within our universe, or could forces outside our universe be affecting them? This is a stupid question, frankly. Everything which we currently have any knowledge of is contained within this universe, and the explanations which we have been able to devise for the phenamenon observed within our universe do not require any extra-universal forces to explain them. In the absence of concrete proof of anything what so ever outside our universe, the answer to this question has to be, "no."

There are no stupid questions Ken.

kenholzman said:

~Is it possible that since man has consciousness, and that all tht matter that eixsts in mankind which has gone to create his consciousness is also available in the universe?
Is it possible that monkeys could fly out of my butt? Sure, it's possible, but is there any evidence at all for it ever happening? No.

The evidence is that mankind has evolved consciousness. Everything that exists in the universe comes from the big bang. This includes consciousness.

[Kensterberg]

So where's this proof of soul at? I answered the fucking questions (I'm in a really bad mood today, and this ain't helping), now I want my soul.

Preferably cooked in a nice lemon-pepper glaze. With rice and salsa on the side.