Roger Waters vs Syd Barrett

[Rit]

This board is nominally here to see Syd Barrett era Floyd go up against Roger Waters era Floyd,

but it can also just be a sporadic discussion of one of the great rock bands of history: The Pink Floyd.

[Rit]

i'm all about the Syd love myself. What about y'all?

[melon1]

I would've voted for Waters and Gilmour at the same time if possible. Face it, Waters is gonna win this one.

[Rit]

I think people vastly underrate the Syd Barrett era.

Whereas at the end it became a kind of cloak and brand name, in the beginning that idiosyncracy was just a natural outflow of Barrett’s obvious inability to express himself in the accepted fashion. He may have had a bit of a savant about him, but Roger Keith “Syd” Barrett’s innate mannerisms changed the course of English rock. The Pink Floyd in 1966-7 were a new thing, unimaginable before in pop music: wild and aggressive auteurs, ever-so-sophisticated and arty popsters.

The aggression in their early jams is criminally underestimated. It’s one of the key factors that made sure that they transcended labels such as “meditative psychedelia” and instead resonated as a band to kick out the jams to. (All of which is to say that the Floyd were as garage-metallic as they were psych-rocking, which turns out to mean a whole lot in our present post-Velvets and post-punk world.)

[Galactus]

I would like to vote "Wish You Were Here is the only album worth owning" but since I don't see that option I'll vote for Roger. .

[Galactus]

I'll move this over here...

ded said:

My opinions on Barrett are pretty similar to those of VU...with the exception that I consider VU listenable.

[melon1]

The Pink Floyd in 1966-7 were a new thing, unimaginable before in pop music: wild and aggressive auteurs, ever-so-sophisticated and arty popsters.


True, Rit, and it could possibly be agreed upon that it was more influentail overall than Waters Floyd. But when it comes to songwriting, or should I say album writing, the Waters era is not only superior to the Barret era, but I would say superior to any other band at any other time, period.

[Rit]

why do you say that Melon? i find The Wall overblown, and a bit tedious.

Wish You Were Here is mere tom-fluffery.

but Dark Side of the Moon is probably the best thing the Floyd ever put out.

Animals? i've never seen a more mediocre piece of work get lauded as much as it does. the concept is flat, uninspired, and unoriginal to boot.

[Rit]

but Piper at The Gates of Dawn? let me count the ways i love thee...

For a brief crystallized instant in early 1967, (the year of the cynically named ‘Summer of Love’), Barrett trafficked in the unfettered promise of joyful expressionism, an unpolitical radical, happily adrift in a tempestuous sea of his own making; wilfully obscure yet dementedly engaging; at once distant from his nascent audience yet still glowing like a nuclear artefact amidst them. Ironically, Barrett never clicked with the so-called flower children on the 60s – although he partook in the same symbols and tokens, and tried to be inclusive, the context of Piper’s creation was always going to ensure that it remained a deeply unsettling (and even alienating) listening on a fundamental level. This has proven true till the present day. It can't merely be squared away.

Piper taken along with the first two Syd Barrett solo albums (which are Floyd albums in a way, since the Floyd band members are implicated in them all over the place), is a highly original and undiminished body of work.

[Rit]

IMO, if i were in charge of compiling a Grand History of the Floyd, as some kind of definitive statement boxset, it would look like the following:

Relics
Piper At The Gates of Dawn
A Saucerful of Secrets
More
The Madcap Laughs
Barrett
Meddle
Obscured By Clouds
Dark Side of The Moon

*years of lost wildernesses*

A Final Cut

*more years of lost wildernesses*

THE END.

[melon1]

At least you admit to the superiority of DSOTM. But if you appreciate that album so much, how can you possibly think that WYWH is "mere tom-fluffery" I agree with you on The Wall and I also don't consider it a barometer of Pink Floyd artistry. I just ignore it for the most part. IMO DSOTM and WYWH are 2 of the 3 greatest albums ever made, so you know you're gonna get a biased viewpoint from me on this subject. With albums that perfect it doesn't matter if there's only two of them. It's enough for me to consider Pink Floyd tied w/ U2 and Zeppelin for the greatest band in the world. Meddle is actually my 3rd favorite Floyd album and I love Animals too.

[Rit]

hmm, i consider Zeppelin to be terribly overrated as well, but that's a discussion for another year

[Kensterberg]

ded said:

I would like to vote "Wish You Were Here is the only album worth owning" but since I don't see that option I'll vote for Roger. .

I'll second the first part of Mantis' post, but lacking the option to endorse only WYWH, I'm opting for "the other two dudes."

[koolkat]

I never liked Pink Floyd. Only a song here and there. That's why I'm the 'penis' vote. :-)

"Piper at The Gates of Dawn", the only album of theres I actually bought, stinks. Of course, this is only MY opinion, the rest of the world can continue thinking they were the best thing since sliced bread, as far as I'm concerned, they're a snoozefest. The whole lot of 'em!

[maarts]

I will not go as far as to say that either Waters or Barrett are overrated but it's almost as if you are talking about two seperate entities here. Sort of how Genesis mutated from the Gabriel-era into the Collins-MOR-era.
As much as I like the poetry and the will-o-the-wisp-imagery of Syd, I do prefer the more meat-on-the-bone Pink Floyd from Meddle onwards. Piper and Saucerful are good albums which execute very well Barret's psychedelic psyche. The earliest singles were great- I always thought Arnold Layne was a staplemark of psychedelic sixties political uncorrectness in a safe rock 'n roll-world.
But discovering that era of PF came later- I was bowled over late seventies by the sheer force and magnificence of Meddle, which was the first PF-album I owned, well before Dark Side and Wish You Were Here. I guess after those first experiences it was hard to be equally as impressed with other albums, although Wish You Were Here came closest to managing that.
In all honesty, I have come never further than to respect Syd than really admire him. I listened to his solo-output, read his story and feel for the guy who obviously had so much going on in his mind. But I do not see him as the true genius a lot of people see but I can understand why people do- oddly enough, one of the reasons I do is through an episode of X-Files where one of the main characters in the story is a huge fan who connects through him.
Devandra Banhart-fans might want to like to sit up and take notice too.