early 80s British New Wave

[JesusLooksLikeMe]

The Cure can do the perfect pop thing (Just Like Heaven, Inbetween Days, and an almost with Lovecats), the perfect mope thing (all of Pornography and most of Disintegration), pop punk (Boys Don't Cry) arch-goth (Faith, Charlotte Sometimes)... and unfortunately, just to flesh out their range completely, an awful lot of mediocre shite as well.

BUT... their best pop song, Inbetween Days, owes everything to New Order. I think we all know that. Their best albums, Pornography and Disintegration, worship at the shrine of Joy Division - listen to "Closedown"... this stuff is influenced, not influential.

So I might have gone with New Order, except for the fact that after 3 great albums they released the samey Brotherhood, which, with the exception of "All Day Long" I always found was a good way of getting to sleep and then became overly-obsessed with chasing the tails of the Madchester dance set and combing Ibiza for their ideas.

Depeche Mode were a disposable singles band up until Black Celebration. Obviously Gore hit his stride after that and I'd place 'em above Echo in the scheme of things, but only just. Not forgetting The Sound and Kitchens of Distinction and so on - also good bands. But there's no way my vote could go here compared with the big 3 in the poll.

I have to go with the Smiths. There are (to date) 3 important song-writing partnerships in British music simply more essential than the rest, more influential, more lasting, whatever you like. Lennon/McCartney, Morrissey/Marr, Yorke/J. Greenwood.

[riley]

Sporty/Posh wrote some pretty intense pieces as well to be fair.

[Rit]

all in all, some great posts. most especially the revelations about Sporty/Posh. it was a stunner, but it had that ring of ancient truth about it.

[riley]

the Scary/Baby combo was more consistent, but most of the stuff they wrote didn't have the same staying power

[Rit]

the best Smiths album is possibly the self-titled one.

The Smiths is the true quirky, unsettled heart of the Smiths. What came afterwards, from Meat Is Murder onwards, was them easing into football hooligan appeal, moving away from outright bisexual dalliances.

[Rit]

...so that you got to the point where, by Strangeways, a youngish Noel Gallagher would think nothing of idolizing the Smiths as something British and special, and not as creepy social nerds, er.. which is certainly not game on for the hooligans.

[wayved]

This is from a music lovers point of view--no flowery bullshit or pretentious asshole crap. I cannot Intellectulize this shit--why do it?

My favorites in order:

1. Echo and the Bunnymen-Just personal taste I guess. The first song I heard was "Lips Like Sugar" and started investigating further....It just got better and better...Porcupine, Crocodiles, Heaven Up Here (even Reverberation--sans McCulloch has a couple of timeless songs--noteably "Thick Skinned World" and "Enlighten Me") They get my vote. Think back of when you heard "The Cutter" for the first time.. Favorite Echo and the Bunnymen Album--PORCUPINE. That blew my mind. Every single song on it. Ocean Rain is good (side TWO was paramount for any of you who remember the days of cassettes!)

2. The Smiths--Holy shit. When I first heard Louder than Bombs I just could not believe such good music could exist. I HATED the the first Smiths album the first time I heard it (I had already absorbed the rest of their albums into my bloodstream) then one day out of the blue I put it on and it clicked. Back then, when I was 16 (im a child of the late 80s/90s) all I knew was that I was lucky to be hearing music like this. I played Louder than Bombs a couple weeks ago, figuring I may have outgrown all of Morrisseys whining--absolutely not. "Hang the DJ" I finally found my way into Strangeways too...musically...

3. The Cure-- My sisters friend let me borrow her Disintegration tape the week it came out--my life was forever changed. She did not get it back. The first time I heard Pornography I wanted to skip class just to listen to it all day. "The Caterpillar"? Who writes a fucking awesome and sickly sweet song like that? I could go on and on. Seventeen Seconds? I want to say early Cure was better--I cant do it...Wish is an amazing album.

4. New Order--TECHNIQUE (half of it) was the only album I enjoyed at the time--I hated that synth beat shit. When a friend of mine let me borrow this in high school-she told me--You will like the songs with the real drums (and pointed them out to me-at least they sounded real). She was right. I loved those. Every single woman I have ever dated in my life had a copy of Substance. Fast forward--I do love New Order and have found guilty pleasure in all of their albums. I have not picked up their latest one in fear "Rock The Shack Pt II" will appear...17 bucks best spent elsewhere...

5. Depeche Mode....Has anyone here actually heard Speak and Spell? That sucks! I just could not get into Depeche Mode. Violator has some good songs "Policy Of Truth" "Enjoy the Silence"--and I like the 101 version of "Something to Do" --"Dreaming of Me" is actually number three on the worst songs of all time list....by virtue of friends I have most everything they have put out but I really dont want to listen. I will throw on some tomorrow. Maybe Im missing something still?

[Mary]

As much as I hate following the crowd, I just had to vote for the Smiths here. Now, if Joy Division had been one of the options, then I'd have had a personal crisis and my brain would have melted, or something.

Smiths--what can I say that hasn't already been said? Ultimately, not only do the tunes obviously kick ass, but this is a band with fucking CHARISMA. And unique charisma at that - they completely defined a sensibility which no one else has been able to capture. I'm not sure if you can say the same of any of the other bands on this list - they may have been the masters of a particular sensibility, but it just wasn't anywhere near as singular.

That said, I'm glad Echo have actually scored 2 votes. I feel like they're underappreciated - always an afterthought when people talk about this scene. They would be my second fave of the bunch. Followed by a two-way tie between new order and the cure - can't choose between 'em. At their absolute pinnacle, i probably prefer the cure, but soooooooo much crap in there, and i find robert smith's persona rather offputting.

Depeche Mode totally totally bring up the rear though. I never got the deal with this band. Just never clicked for me at all. Booooring.

Cheers,
M

[Rit]

Wayved, i liked your post on it.

[Kensterberg]

I voted for the Cure, who were/are easily the best of this bunch. But I haven't had the time to go into the reasoning until now.

First off, if this board really is about "early 80's British New Wave" then the Smiths don't belong here at all. The Smiths weren't part of the "new wave" in fact, if anything, they put an end to the era of largely synth driven post-punk bands. As AMG states in their bio of the band, "The Smiths were the definitive British indie rock band of the '80s, marking the end of synth-driven new wave and the beginning of the guitar rock that dominated English rock into the '90s." The Smiths were never a "new wave" band in any way, shape, or form. Now, I've long been on record as finding Morrisey's voice intolerable, and that hasn't changed. With a different lead singer, I'd have likely loved the Smiths: as it is, I can respect the hell out of them (they are easily the most influential band here), but I don't have to like 'em. But since this poll is (ostensibly) about "new wave" bands, the Smiths are disqualified. And even if they were eligible, I wouldn't vote for them since influential does not equal good.

Depeche Mode are a band that I just can't get into. I've had really close friends who just love 'em, but for me they've always been at best good radio fodder ("Personal Jesus," "Enjoy the Silence") and at worst completely disposable synth-pap ("People Are People"). They would fit the "early 80's British New Wave" tag, but since they've done so much crap, they're also out of the running.

Echo and the Bunnymen merit serious consideration for this title. However, the Echo that I love ends after about the second album, and since that means I'm not wild about most of their catalog, I'd feel more than a little hypocritical voting for them. But Crocodiles is one hell of a record, and on a par with Power, Corruption, and Lies, or any of the Cure's best work.

So that leaves New Order and the Cure, both of whom have made brilliant albums, and absolute utter crap. For me, this ultimately boils down to which band has put out more good stuff, and that's the Cure. While I prefer their singles to their albums, as a general rule, the band has put out a lot of awfully good work for a very long time. Plus, as their roots were in the scene of 1978 and '79, the Cure were a band who (originally) earned the sobriquet "new wave" before it was appended to such acts as A Flock of Seagulls or Duran Duran. And those edgey, jagged early albums (while never the equal of Crocodiles) taken together hit some incredible highs. Disintegration is recognized as a mopey (but deserved) masterpiece by almost everyone who has ever heard it. Also, the incredible sonic complexity of such tracks as Fascination Street prompted Fat Bob and the gang to revisit many of their earlier tunes on the wonderful Mixed Up, which features definitive versions of A Forest and The Walk that far surpass the originals.

For me, New Order's candidacy rests on their first three albums, and primarily on the seminal Power, Corruption, and Lies. This just might be the best "post-punk" album, period. But it's only one record. Low Life was awfully good, but it wasn't quite up to that standard, and Brotherhood IMO is a mess, with the best tunes ruined by gimmicky production. After that, the band didn't make another good record until Get Ready. While they certainly produced a credible body of work, it doesn't compare to Robert Smith's creations with the Cure.

So that's why Fat Bob earns this one, in a knockout.

[Rit]

i voted for New Order but as soon as i did, i changed my mind and now would vote for the Cure.


pretty much the best song out of all Five bands, for me, is the Cure's "The Caterpillar" song, which exists in a space not of this world. fragile, tremendously beautiful, and just basically awesome.
the best new wave/indie song ever.

[skvorisdeadsorta]

I'll take the Cure, I truly love them and I find no shame in admitting it.
New Order of course is probably the vanguard for the genre. It's hard to decide.
I love Depeche Mode, but really they were nothing more than a Fad Gadget rip off to me and it just doesn't get any better than Fad Gadget.
The Smiths, are of course, GREAT.
Echo and the Bunnymen, while I like them, I'd take them off the list for Siouxsie and the Banshees on any given day.

[Kensterberg]

Rit -- isn't it ironic that The Caterpillar is perhaps my least favorite Cure song ever. God I hate that track ...

[skvorisdeadsorta]

It's probably one of the best tracks on "The Top" though. I think that record is just abysmal at best.

[Rit]

you can't hate that song, Ken. it's unhateable. you know you love it, deep down.