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Post by bowiglou on Feb 21, 2006 19:33:05 GMT -5
oh Ayinger, didn't 'Silly Love Songs" hit a nerve?....you know the nerve that unnerves!!!!
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Post by strat-0 on Feb 21, 2006 19:47:51 GMT -5
Well, this will likely be unpopular, but I think Lennon's solo work is overrated. It just doesn't do much for me. I think he got complacent. I don't suppose I blame him, and I really think the world of the guy, but his post-Beatles music was generally sloppy and melody-poor, imho. Not entirely, but generally. McCartney (for all his fluff) and Harrison stayed artistically hungry - it mattered to them, and it often shows in their results. Sir Paul still gives it everything he's got.
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Post by Kensterberg on Feb 21, 2006 20:20:34 GMT -5
I actually agree with both Ayinger and Strat. Plastic Ono Band is absolutely heart-stoppingly powerful - it is the sound of Lennon's soul laid bare, and it is absolutely harrowing -- and John's later solo work is sloppy and complacent. I've got no problem with giving JL/PBO the honor of best solo Beatle album, and putting his entire solo career into third, ahead of only Ringo. In fact, if it weren't for the obvious chasm in sheer ability, I'd put Ringo ahead of Lennon simply b/c Mr. Starkey gave a whole hell of a lot more effort to the endevour.
But John's early solo work is absolutely essential. Instant Karma and Cold Turkey are brilliant singles, and Imagine is a worthy (if inconsistent) effort as well. But after that, he phoned it in. Even Double Fantasy is hardly a return to form: John contributed a single album side of material, and even this is spotty. "Woman" is a half-baked ode to domestic bliss which Macca could top in his sleep (and apparently has -- check out "Warm and Beautiful" from Speed of Sound, for example), and "Dear Yoko" (or is it "Oh Yoko"? I get 'em confused) sounds like something written in, well, about the time it took to record. If this had been a spontaneous sound-check moment, it would be endearing, but as the result of laborious studio sessions, it qualifies as at best a throw-away. That said, "Watching the Wheels," "(Just Like) Starting Over" and "I'm Losing You" are all fine efforts which nicely follow-up earlier Lennon efforts like "The Ballad of John and Yoko" nicely. If he'd turned in an entire album equal to these tracks, DF would be the record a lot of people (me included) wanted it to be.
My ranking of the respective post-Beatle careers ...
1. Paul (yeah, there's a lot of crap here, but there's also a lot of gems ... more than any of the others, frankly; and, as Strat noted, the man STILL gives his all, both on stage and in the studio)
2. George (All Things Must Pass + some stellar singles = good enough)
3. John (JL/PBO, about half of Imagine, and a few singles are keepers, the rest of his solo output is scarcely worth hearing)
4. Ringo (if he'd made one more LP the equal of Ringo, he might have edged John)
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Post by Galactus on Feb 21, 2006 21:02:41 GMT -5
Well, this will likely be unpopular, but I think Lennon's solo work is overrated. It just doesn't do much for me. I think he got complacent. I don't suppose I blame him, and I really think the world of the guy, but his post-Beatles music was generally sloppy and melody-poor, imho. Not entirely, but generally. McCartney (for all his fluff) and Harrison stayed artistically hungry - it mattered to them, and it often shows in their results. Sir Paul still gives it everything he's got. Word. |
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Post by phil on Feb 21, 2006 21:57:42 GMT -5
In fact, if it weren't for the obvious chasm in sheer ability, I'd put Ringo ahead of Lennon simply b/c Mr. Starkey gave a whole hell of a lot more effort to the endevour.
You got to be kidding ... !
Please ! Tell me you were just kidding !!
1. Paul (yeah, there's a lot of crap here, ...
At least you got that part right ... !!
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Post by Galactus on Feb 21, 2006 22:08:13 GMT -5
To be honest I don't even think alot of John's solo stuff even shows that much talent. There are definent highmarks but alot of it is just bland.
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Post by Kensterberg on Feb 21, 2006 22:14:25 GMT -5
I love Lennon ... but I'm not deaf. There's just no way I can put the totality of John's solo career above Paul or George. As bad as some of Paul's stuff was, I can't say he released anything as awful as Some Time in NYC, and both Mind Games and Walls and Bridges are as sweet and annoying as Red Rose Speedway. And since Paul was still around, he was able to churn out more worthwhile material in the eighties and beyond. Flowers in the Dirt alone is better than any Lennon LP except JL/PBO (and maybe Imagine, depends on my mood).
But I did forget about Rock and Roll ... while this isn't exactly a masterpiece, it does showcase John doing what he did best, wailing in the classic rock style. Worth hearing if only for his take on Stand By Me, which proved that he hadn't lost the interpretive talent which made his vocals on Twist and Shout and Money (and others) among the best covers in all of rock.
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Post by Kensterberg on Feb 21, 2006 22:17:23 GMT -5
I should also mention that I'd put every solo Beatle behind Townshend's solo career, as well as Paul Weller's and Joe Strummer's. For that matter, I'd put Lou Reed and Don Henley ahead of 'em, too. Frankly, I don't think any of their solo catalogs have held up that well over time. They all made one great album, and then the rest is (extremely) hit and miss.
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Post by Galactus on Feb 21, 2006 22:19:06 GMT -5
I should also mention that I'd put every solo Beatle behind Townshend's solo career, as well as Paul Weller's and Joe Strummer's. For that matter, I'd put Lou Reed and Don Henley ahead of 'em, too. Frankly, I don't think any of their solo catalogs have held up that well over time. They all made one great album, and then the rest is (extremely) hit and miss. I agree. |
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Post by Galactus on Feb 21, 2006 22:20:04 GMT -5
...except for the part about Don Henley...
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Post by phil on Feb 21, 2006 22:20:36 GMT -5
Finaly it must be a good thing John Lennon got shot when he was 40 y/o ... !!
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Post by Kensterberg on Feb 21, 2006 22:26:53 GMT -5
...except for the part about Don Henley... I thought there might be a caveat there ... Look at it this way, Henley made TWO great albums (Building the Perfect Beast and The End of the Innocence), another very good one (I Can't Stand Still, which featured Dirty Laundry), and then a hit and miss affair. That (at a minimum) puts him on a par w/Macca and George, right?  Phil -- I'd have love to have had John around for another decade or more. I was devastated when he was murdered, as I was a 16 year old Beatle nut. But as much as I love John and admire much of what he did, I can't cover up the fact that a lot of his solo work just isn't very good, just as the same is true for George, Paul, and Ringo. No matter who your favorite Beatles is, they all released plenty of crap after 1970. It's just how you weigh the diamonds and the dirt. My balance sheet puts John in third, but if I weighted things just a little differently, he'd be at the top. Or Ringo could be there ... it's all a matter of how you hear it shaking out. |
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Post by Galactus on Feb 21, 2006 22:33:39 GMT -5
Try to imagine that they are not former Beatles. Try to imagine they all began their careers in 1970...I'd imagine they'd be on the same level as a Don Henley or Steve Winwood...respected but not legends...
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Post by Ayinger on Feb 21, 2006 23:07:27 GMT -5
oh Ayinger, didn't 'Silly Love Songs" hit a nerve?....you know the nerve that unnerves!!!! Funny but that song came on the radio Monday morning as I was heading into work and I gave it a good listen. While I hated the song when it came out and got played every half hour on the radio, I find I can pretty much tolerate it now in my older days if I'm in a mood for it (I can say a lot of the same towards scads of other 70's pop, disco, etc.). What I DID do on Monday was admire how very well put together the things was...that, and Linda's b/g vocals weren't 1/2 bad at all. I will say that I find the live Wings Over America version easier to listen to... I'll have to chime in and say I totally agree that Lennon's output has its definite spottiness....a fact that I think most music critics would agree upon and difuse the idea that his solo stuff is overrated. |
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Post by maarts on Feb 22, 2006 6:34:40 GMT -5
I hate to say it but in all cases (Macca, John and George at least) I'm more keen on the various compilations that have surfaced in the last few years. I find the majority of their solo-output not particularly interesting but there were a strong bunch of singles and tracks that have been captured on Greatest Hits, All The Best and the latest Lennon- double CD anthology. So I won't vote on any of the solo-albums here.
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