Religion, Theology, and all that good stuff

[strat-0]

Merc, or Pat, Jac is asking you to cease with the personal attack. How about it?

[poseidon]

What did Jac do Strat? E-mail you with a 1000 word reasons-why-patlogi-should-be-banned message?

LOL.

O.K. done communicating with Jac in any form.

[poseidon]

Who's doing the personal attacking (again) Strato?

Boy, oh boy, oh boy are your buttons easily pushed Jac.
Defensive people like yourself are like that I suppose.

[poseidon]

Oohps...I replied to one of his asinine posts...


toodles Jac...

[Galactus]

I'm going to buy this tomorrow, thanks ken.

[shin]

nymphofantasia said:

kmc said:

Dee, can you point me in the direction of the historical proof that Jesus walked on water?

Can you point me to any proof that he DIDN'T?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Nepenthe]

I was just reading up on the latest on the DNA mapping of migrations. Was reading what they found out about Thomas Jefferson. He was of Welsh Ancestry, I know he was quite interested in finding those Welsh speaking Native Americans. You know the same ones that George Catlin wrote about, the Mandan. The Welsh legend of Prince Madoc who traveled to America in 1170 and settled here a group of people, returned to Wales and brought back more people. And to think there is a Modoc Native Tribe today living in Oklahoma, they were the last tribe to fight against the US Army, oddly they dressed very similar to Welsh folk. Heh, Esther Maddock was my 5th Great Grandmother on my Dad's Maternal line.

Anyway, here is what they found.

K2: The K2 lineage is an old lineage presently found only at low frequencies in Africa, Asia, and in the Middle East. This specific line is found at low frequency in southern Europe, Northern Africa, and the Middle East.
Famous People in History Who Were in the K2 Haplogroup: Thomas Jefferson.


SNP testing, however, revealed that Jefferson's Y is positive for M70, which places him in haplogroup K2. K2 is rare in northern Europe (only one K was found among 1772 British men surveyed by Capelli et al., but it wasn't typed for M70) but quite common in the Middle East and northeast Africa, where it reaches frequencies of 10% or more. Interestingly, another person typed in the film, the Ethiopian prince, is also K2, but many mutational steps removed from Jefferson.

Update:
K2 is found at substantial frequencies in various Spanish populations. The simplest explanation for its presence in Thomas Jefferson might be that he was the descendant of a Spaniard.

[Nepenthe]

This is pretty cool

Here is a pic from 1874 of the Modoc tribe. That one dude has what looks kind of like a Shamrock on his hat.

[Nepenthe]

I am not sure what year this was taken, but here is another one of the Modoc tribe. The one dude in the tall hat on the left with the beard wasn't a Native though, he was an American who married into the tribe. Not sure who the other dude is on the right.

Damn, those women have blond hair....

[Nepenthe]

From the Modoc Amerindian current website

This is Scarfaced Charlie



This is Captain Jack - known in history as Captain Jack's stronghold.

[Nepenthe]

And the last one, their Chief Bill Follis and their flag.

[Matheus]

Wow, people can really be mean when it comes to this stuff. Probably not a place where I feel like discussing anything I believe, or what I'm learning, or even what I know for a fact to be true.

Pat, one thing I don't believe in is being judge and jury, but damn, dude, that shit you posted was harsh. I know how much fun it can be to shock, offend, and push people's buttons, but it's not exactly all it's chalked up to be later on. I know you've read into that Kabbalah stuff, and I'm not really sure where you are with that, but one of the beliefs they teach you is everything you put out comes back to you in one way or another. And even the celebrity spokesperson for that church said in a little song "everything I give you, all comes back to me."

Let go of your anger for Christianity. Set the institution aside, what you deem some of the members of that church have done to you, and look at what the book is saying. Whether you deem it to be true or not doesn't matter, there is still something large in that book that any person can see does ring true (if only in message).

Take a look at Kabbalah, it's just a restatiing of what the bible already says. The Kabbalah Centre makes it all nicey nice, but the truth is that they're also saying turn away from your wicked ways or you're going to hell. Period. The way they represent hell is a little different, but it's still the same thing at its core.

Here's a fine example:
When I chose to stop pushing the buttons of a certain poster here, and CHOSE to further my knowledge in something they personally believed in rather than argue with this poster based on my assumptions or what I thought something was, I was given absolute support in that. I was glad I took the time to read into things so that I can grasp my own thoughts on said subject rather than going around speaking retardedly on it.

And then there's JAC. I don't give a shit what anyone thinks of him, or what his actions were in the past. His "past" bears a similar theme to that of one of my closest friends who has also turned away from their wicked ways. Faith was always there, they just chose to live against what they knew to be true. I've heard both of them say it. I've learned a fucking lot from both of them.

And I know it's all a reiteration of what was already told to you, Pat, but I hope coming from me it means a little more. Let go of your anger completely.

It's not a matter of picking sides either, it's about saying what's right and what's wrong. What you're doing is wrong, and it's not very gracious. Period.

[JACkory]

Thanks, Matt.

BTW, I just wanted to point out, for the benefit of those who may not have been on the RS.com boards during the time Patlogi brought up in his initial baiting post, the Mary referred to was a poster who went by the handle "marym" and was NOT the Mary we all know and love as the Theology board's originator. I'm sure most of you are well aware of that, but I did want to clear up any confusion on that point.
And I would also like to reiterate that there was absolutely NO adultery involved in the whole fiasco. Had there been, I would probably not be trying to think of what to get my wife for our 12th wedding anniversary in January.
And now it would be nice to be able to tuck that memory back into the mental drawer labelled "Mistakes/Lessons Learned" where it's been stashed for the last 4 years.

[Matheus]

Since I came into this a little late, I'm going to take the poll that was posted at the beginning...

1) Do you believe in God?

Yes, even though I hate the word.

2) Do you think reason and faith are radically distinct?

No. Faith without reason, and reason without faith are meaningless.
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

3) What religion, if any, do you practice? (Or, perhaps, if you're a nonbeliever, what religion were you raised in? Or what religion does your family practice?)

At this point, I would probably be labeled a Heretic Christian. Not really far enough along to make any sort of distinction. I was not raised with religion, and at this point it's just a lot of faith in something I can't name. Gnosticism/Kabbalah (The Zohar, not the Kabbalah Centre) comes into play. A lot of questions, wanting of answers, and a need for knowledge of things that can't be explained.

4) How important are religious questions to you?

Very important. I question every day.

5) Have you ever seriously doubted your own religious beliefs? (that applies to atheists/agnostics too!)

My core beliefs, never.

6) Do you think the differences between religions are major and important, or do you think that most religions share the same basic principles, and the differences beyond that are unimportant?

I think there are many similarities, but there are also vast differences. I'm not all that well-versed on anything outside the Christian/Judaism sects to probably be an authority, but yes, I think the differences are important, as are the similarities.

7) Do you believe in heaven and hell?

Yes, but not in the traditional sense, just like I don't see "God" and "Satan" in the traditional sense. It's all much larger than it's given credit for.

8) Do you attend religious services with any regularity? What kind?

No.

9) Have you ever attended religious services for a religion besides your own? Which one? What did you make of it?

Yes, I have attended church, which I don't believe in. My association with God has nothing to do with others.

10) How important to you are shared religious beliefs in relationships?

I think moralistic beliefs are more important.

11) Does it matter to you if political leaders are religious?

Yes, I don't want to hear about it. Politics is for the lives of humans now, not for God or the afterlife.

12) True or false: the world would be a better a place if all religions just disappeared overnight.

False. The world would be a better place if people used their religion to become better people rather than shitting on one another.

[poseidon]

Thanks for the message Slark. I guess it does mean a little more coming from you. I will mention though that Jac deleted three or four of his more nasty posts that had me react in the fashion that I reacted. Pushed my buttons, so I returned the honor.

You're right though, I like pushing JAC'S buttons. A lot. And I don't quite know why other than he reminds me of myself in a lot of ways. Maybe thats the why???

I am working on myself. I've improved in many areas. Still a long way to go. As for Kabbalah's views on hell, I think any 'correction' of ourself (generally speaking) not made in this lifetime is made in the next. After a brief time in sheol. Reborn again. To either make it right, or get it wrong again.

I don't dislike christianity or have any real hang-ups about the religion. I just don't like people that are 'in-your-face about it.' It's offensive. Spirituality is an intense personal thing. Not a thing to be discussed blithely.