Religion, Theology, and all that good stuff

[strat-0]

Not me, Pat.

[strat-0]

Anyone can delete their own posts.

[phil]

kmc said:

Dee, can you point me in the direction of the historical proof that Jesus walked on water?

Ken ~ Follow the link below for pictures of infaillable proofs
that the Bible is an historical document
instead of a document written within an historical CONTEXT ...

www.thebricktestament.com/genesis/garden_of_eden/gn02_07a.html

... ...

[poseidon]

nymphofantasia said:

I am not sure what year this was taken, but here is another one of the Modoc tribe. The one dude in the tall hat on the left with the beard wasn't a Native though, he was an American who married into the tribe. Not sure who the other dude is on the right.

Damn, those women have blond hair....

I think they have blonde hair due to constant sun saturation.

[Nepenthe]

I have been reading a very very interesting book called "North American Sun Kings, Keepers of the Flame" written by Joseph B. Mahan with a Expoistory statement by Cyclone Covey. Joseph Mahan, who is now deceased, held a Ph.D. in history and anthropology from the University of North Carolina and an M.A. in history with a minor in anthropology from the University of Georgia. His career had been devoted to work in both areas. He was the assistant professor of history on the faculty of the University of Georgia (1952-1958). Curator of the Columbus Ga. Museum (1958-1072), an executive director of Westville Village, a Georgia living history museum (1972-1978). In 1982 he held the position of planner in historic preservation for the lower Chattahoochee Regional Development Center in Columbus. Dr. Mahan was one of the founders in 1983 of the Institute for the Study of American Cultures, ISAC. ISAC is a non profit corporation devoted to "competent, unbiased research into the history and culture of the peoples who inhabited the American continents prior to 1492 and their descendants." He first started his studies of Native Americans in the 1940's. In 1977 he spent 6 months in Pakistan and India researching the Indus Valley Civilization on a joint grant from the Institute for Pakistan Studies. He wrote a book in 1983 titled "The Secret, America in World History Before Columbus, which was written about this research. He is related to the Yuchi tribal chief Samuel W. Brown Jr.

This book is amazing, it is one of the most insightful books I have ever seen, and I am only about 1/8 into it. I have skimmed over it quite a bit though. The mummies in China are brought up in this book, and their origins. This book was written in 1992. Through his research, along with oral traditions and historical documents he has traced many Native Amerindians back to the Middle East, Egypt, and Crete. This book mainly focuses on the Priesthood, the Sun kings and the subsidiary Kings and priests. It became known in archeology as the "Southern Cult", it has survived to this present day in the "Grand Medicine Society" which exists over a wide area of North America.

[Kensterberg]

Tuatha -- I'm just curious here ... how does he get Cretan influence into the New World? I'm interested in what the mechanism would be. Minoan culture flourished in the second millenium B.C.E., and seems to have its origins in the middle-late third millenium. I'm assuming (obviously I haven't read this book) that the Native American rituals he discusses are of much more recent vintage than this. I know of no hard archaeological evidence that would put Bronze Age (or late Neolithic) Minoans on this side of the Atlantic, but I am curious.

I've got a long standing interest (obsession?) with the Bronze Age Mediteranean, and particularly with Crete in this period. So if there's anything that you can post (or link to) that addresses how this Prof. proposes for there to have been cultural influence from the Pre Indo-European population of Crete on populations in the Americas (which had been established more than 10,000 years prior), I'd be very grateful.

(Also, please note that I'm not saying anything at all critical in this post. I haven't read this book -- honestly don't remember ever hearing anything about it. I'm just curious about this question. Thanks.)

[Nepenthe]

The statement on the back of the book reads as follows:

An eighteenth century writer, Le Page Du Pratz, made several visits to the town of the Natchez on the lower Mississippi River and became acquainted with their sun king, the "Great Sun", and the chief of the guardians of the sacred fire. He was told by the latter that "all nature has been formed by the order of the supreme spirit except man who alone has been formed by the same spirit from a little earth and water kneaded together".

when the chief guardian asked who taught the Natchez to build a temple and whence came the eternal fire, he related traditional history to answer these questions:

"A very great number of years ago there appeared among us a man and his wife who had descended from the Sun. It is not that we thought that he was the son of the Sun or that the Sun had a wife by whom he begot children, but when both of them were seen they were still so brilliant that it was not difficult to believe that they had come from the Sun. This man told us that having seen from above that we did not govern ourselves well, that we did not have a master, that each one of us believed that he had sufficient intelligence to govern others while he was not able to guide himself, he had taken the determination to descend in order to teach us how to live better.

He then told us that in order to be in a condition to govern others it was necessary to know how to guide one's self, and that in order to live in peace among ourselves and please the Supreme Spirit it was necessary to observe these points: to kill no one except in self defense of one's life, never to know another woman than one's own, to take nothing that belongs to another, never to lie or become drunk, and not to be avaricious, but to give freely and with joy that which one has and to share food generously with those who lack it."

[Nepenthe]

Ken, I haven't read the book yet, I am just now starting. I have finals coming next week. After that we are off for about a month, I will let you know when I come to that point. I have a few books about the peopling of the new world though. There are many theories out there about pre Columbus societies coming to the New World. I do know that on the Rosetta stone inscription it mentions the Gods of Vine Land, it also talks about corn over and over. Also there is some interesting things about the mummies in Egypt that had cocaine, hemp and nicotine in their hair.

Not sure where they found this, but I remember reading that they found an ancient painting of a Pineapple and I want to say that it was in Egypt. hhmm. I will have to look that up again.

[Nepenthe]

The bibliography for this book is like 20 pages long, and this is a hardback coffee table size book.

[Nepenthe]

Also I did read that the Columbus University in Georgia started a project, a library archive collection with all of Mahan's work and several others, presenting different opinions about the peopling of the New World.

[Nepenthe]

poseidon said:

nymphofantasia said:

I am not sure what year this was taken, but here is another one of the Modoc tribe. The one dude in the tall hat on the left with the beard wasn't a Native though, he was an American who married into the tribe. Not sure who the other dude is on the right.

Damn, those women have blond hair....

I think they have blonde hair due to constant sun saturation.

So then, shouldn't all Native Americans have blond hair

[Nepenthe]

Ken, I was just looking through the index of the book and chapters 3, 6, 8,9, 11, 13, and 14 deal with Crete/Cretans. I will see if I can come up with anything and let you know.

This book is very hard to find, on the web it goes for $199.00 or so, but I got it brand new for $35.00 here in Arkansas through someone I have studied with for over 10 years.

[Nepenthe]

One stone, found at Fort Benning, Georgia, has unusual markings all over it. Professor Stanislav Segert, professor of Semitic languages at the University of Prague, has identified the markings on the stone as a script of the second millennium before the Messiah, from the Minoan civilization on the island of Crete.

In Quest of the White God, Pierre Honore points out similarities between the ancient Minoan writing and the script of the ancient Mayas. Independently of him, other scholars have noted striking similarities between Aztec glyphs from Mexico, and Cretan glyphs on the Phaistos Disc from the island of Crete in the Mediterranean.

[JACkory]

poseidon said:

Thanks for the message Slark. I guess it does mean a little more coming from you. I will mention though that Jac deleted three or four of his more nasty posts that had me react in the fashion that I reacted. Pushed my buttons, so I returned the honor.

You're right though, I like pushing JAC'S buttons. A lot. And I don't quite know why other than he reminds me of myself in a lot of ways. Maybe thats the why???

I am working on myself. I've improved in many areas. Still a long way to go. As for Kabbalah's views on hell, I think any 'correction' of ourself (generally speaking) not made in this lifetime is made in the next. After a brief time in sheol. Reborn again. To either make it right, or get it wrong again.

I don't dislike christianity or have any real hang-ups about the religion. I just don't like people that are 'in-your-face about it.' It's offensive. Spirituality is an intense personal thing. Not a thing to be discussed blithely.

First off, I guess I should say that any button-pushing was most certainly initiated by Patlogi. That should be obvious to anyone.
It also should be noted that defending myself against erroneous statements can hardly be considered "button-pushing", regardless of a propensity on my behalf to give "tit-for-tat" in the respect department.
Second, I would like to reiterate what strat-0 said, "Anyone can delete their own posts". Indeed, I did delete about 3 posts. I did so because they were directed to Patlogi and noone else. When I was satisfied that Patlogi had read those posts, there was no reason to leave them on the board and so I deleted them. They were not kind words, but as far as I was concerned, kind words were not in order following the things that Patlogi had posted, and so I do not apologize for anything I said in them.
Still, there was no reason to leave them up after they had already been read by the one who they were directed to.
I would once again remind Patlogi that anyone, including him, can delete their own posts and I would think that his utilyzing this handy function and deleting his offensive posts would certainly be a great exercise that would go a long way in what he calls "working on myself"...and that it would be the diplomatic thing to do it now instead of waiting until after his "brief time in sheol".
Third, I am flattered that the "pushing of my buttons" is such an amusing hobby of Patlogi's, but I would also like to point out that what he is considering "pushing my buttons" is in actuality simply being an extreme and utter annoyance. Rit pushes my buttons...Patlogi simply gets on my nerves and bugs the shit out of me. There IS a difference, and that difference is why I respect Rit but cannot bring myself to feel anything more noble than contempt for Patlogi.
Fourth, I doubt very seriously that Patlogi and I have enough in common to justify his statement that I "remind him of himself in a lot of ways". This statement only goes to show how limited his perception of me is. I doubt VERY seriously that, if Patlogi knew me, had met me or had even a tiny bit more insight into who I am that he would retract that statement and realize that he would likely be more reminded of himself by John Wayne than by me.
At any rate, that is no reason to be an asshole.
Fifth, if Patlogi think's that I am "in-your-face" about my religion then he has proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that he doesn't know me nearly well enough to be reminded of himself by me.
And finally, as I am reasonably certain that the vast majority who post here are completely disinterested in anything Patlogi might have to say to me (and consequentally, vice versa), it would be greatly appreciated if Mr. Logi, having gotten in the first jab, would be so kind as to let THIS be the last word on the whole matter.
That would be nice, but considering that the last time Mr. Logi stated that he was "done communicating with JAC", that respite lasted the whole of 20 minutes, so I shall not hold my breath.

[JACkory]

phil said:

kmc said:

Dee, can you point me in the direction of the historical proof that Jesus walked on water?

Ken ~ Follow the link below for pictures of infaillable proofs
that the Bible is an historical document
instead of a document written within an historical CONTEXT ...


www.thebricktestament.com/genesis/garden_of_eden/gn02_07a.html

... ...

Disillusioned words like bullets bark
As human gods aim for their mark
Made everything from toy guns that spark
To flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark
It's easy to see without looking too far
That not much
Is really sacred.
Bob Dylan ..."It's Alright Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)"

That's the world we live in.
Glad you're getting a kick out of it.
Personally, I think the next one will be a WHOLE lot better.