Religion, Theology, and all that good stuff

[Kensterberg]

Thanks TDD. Just post a little something when you've had a chance to read the book.

Interesting thing about the Minoan scripts ... There were two distinct types of writing found on Crete. The newer of the two scripts has been translated, and is archaic Greek (which supports the hypothesis that the Greeks had conquered the Cretans c. 1450 B.C.E.). The older script, however, is still indecipherable. It appears to be an otherwise unknown Pre Indo-European language, and we don't have anything comparable to the Rosetta Stone which would give us the same text in several languages. We do know that Crete had trade with both Africa (Egypt), Asia Minor (Turkey), and (of course) Europe (Greece), but we really don't know what language they spoke, exactly what sort of rituals they practiced, or even what they called themselves. We use the term "Minoan" to describe this culture, as it appears to correspond to the kingdom of King Minos in Greek mythology. However, given that the volcanic explosion of the island of Santorini (and the corresponding destruction of a Minoan kingdom there) may have played a large role in the creation of the story of Atlantis, they may well have had a different name for themselves.

OK, sorry about the off-topic discussion of Bronze Age history ... told you this was an obsession of mine.

[JACkory]

Acch...no more off-topic than "The Brick Testament".

[Nepenthe]

Dr. Mahan also has samples of pottery uncovered from the waters around the Bahamas, and talks abou the Indian legends, including that of the Yuchis, stating they had migrated to the area of Florida and Georgia from the region of the Bahamas. According to their legends, the Island sank beneath the sea and they fled for their lives.

These same Yuchis later migrated to the Oklahoma territory, where they eventually settled They have a custom which is unique among the American Indians. Every year on the fifteenth day of the sacred month of harvest, in the fall, they make a pilgrimmage. For eight days they live in "booths" with roofs open to the sky, covered with branches and leaves and foliage. During this festival, they dance around the sacred fire, and called upon the name of God, Yah.

The ancient Israelites had the virtually identical custom, in many respects. In the harvest season in the fall, on the 15th day of the sacred month of harvest (the seventh month), they celebrate the "festival of booths" for eight days. During this time they lived in temporary booths, covered with branches, leaves, fronds. This festival goes back to the time of Moses and the Exodus from ancient Egypt (Leviticus 23).

[Kensterberg]

I can just talk and talk (and talk and talk) about Bronze Age archaeology. BTW, I'm convinced that The Iliad (and to a lesser extent The Odyssey) is every bit as historically accurate (or misleading, as the case may be) as The Old Testament. Both are the written cumulations of their respective oral traditions, and appear to me to have some legitimate basis in actual historic personages and events. However, in neither case can we take them for the literal truth of the events in question. They are most reliable in the details of everyday life, and least reliable in their discussions of events of international/regional concern, where each one has to play the part of cheerleader for their respective ethnic constituencies. If anything, I think that the self-critical narrative of Homer (again, particularly The Iliad, which paints a less than flattering picture of Greek government and politicians) is probably more accurate than that of The Bible, which is generally a hagiographic account of the "nation" of Israel.

Similarly, I think that there are cores of historic "truth" in most oral traditions, particularly those in and around the Near East which were recorded in the Bronze or Iron Ages (i.e. The Epic of Gilgamesh; Egyptian accounts; Hittite/Turkish legends; etc.).

[Nepenthe]

Ken, also they have just recently done DNA testing on the Melungeons. These people live in the Appalachian mountains, but they migrated there. It has been awhile since I read about their history but from what I recall they were here when the Spanish came to America and they were living in log homes (don't quote me on this, it has been awhile). When they asked them who they were they said they were the Portugees (don't recall exactly how they spelled it, but it was different from Portuguese but the same pronunciation). Well the DNA has shown that they have found this line in different areas, Roma Gypsies, Turks, and in Africa and the Middle East I believe. But it appears they have mixed so they are still trying to sort it all out.

A book has been written about it and the theory is that the Portuguese brought them over possibly as slaves. The Melungeons were very interested in the DNA studies.

Here is an interview with a man that is doing research on this.

www.melungeons.com/articles/nov2005.htm

[Nepenthe]

If you go to the National Geographic website you can look at the DNA testing they have done and there is an interactive map of migrations. Seems many of the groups tested both old and new world migrated from the Middle East.

Well, I still stand by the Danaans of Iliad being the tribe of Dan..and later some of the Vikings and Celts. The Tuatha De Danaan are written in the Irish Annals and the name means "sons of Danu" or "Sons of Dan". Dan was known for goddess worship in the Bible and were also known for naming cities after their father. Hence Danmark, which in Denmark this is a known legend. Egyptian and Hittite writings have mentioned the connection to Canaan and to Dan, the city they lived in Israel, calling them Danuites. In the bible they are called Danites.

[Nepenthe]

In Denmark I guess it would be Danes. LOL

[Nepenthe]

Then of course there is the Stone of Scone/Jacob's Pillar. I guess the Queen in England now has her geneaology written, some 146 generations going back to the tribe of Judah (which was the King line).

[Nepenthe]

Damn that stuff about Abraham Lincoln from that Melungeon link was pretty interesting.

[Nepenthe]

I remember awhile back reading a document written by Lincoln about his Quaker Ancestry, that could explain why his parents weren't married in a "church". The Quakers built meeting houses, where they held meetings. They didn't go to traditional churches.

Also Daniel Boone and Lincoln were distant cousins, the Boone family were Quakers as well.

[shin]

[melon1]

May 1998, a ravaging tornado ripped through Birmingham, Alabama destroying homes and killing precious, unsuspecting people. Millions shared the heartbreak of that horrible hour. There was such an outpouring of love and help. Money and supplies continued to flow in. The expressions of love didn't change what happened but it provided a spark of hope in the hurt. As we watched on TV, volunteers waded through the debris and physically reached out to the victims. It was so touching. The world was seeing the love of God in action. And then reality slapped me in the face. I'd never really seen it quiet this way before. There's another deadly tornado. It keeps ripping through our pseudo comfort zones and its casualties are many. Its wake is no less murderous, devastating and gut wrenching than the one that hit Birmingham. It leaves in its path dads and moms just as battered, children just as abused, homes just as shattered, loved ones just as dead. This other tornado is far more destructive however, and it doesn't come, then go. It stays. It's a spiritual tornado: death, the result of sin, the result of selfishness. It's uncanny how the old traditional hymns can haunt us. George Atkins penned this in 1825: "Brethren, see poor sinners 'round you slumb'ring on the brink of woe; death is coming, hell is moving, can you bear to let them go? See our fathers and our mothers, and our children sinking down; brethren, pray and Holy Manna will be showered all around." Fanny Crosby, the dear blind sister who has helped millions to see, wrote these words in 1869: "Rescue the perishing, care for the dying. Snatch them in pity from sin and the grave; weep o'er the erring one, lift up the fallen, tell them of Jesus, the might to save." Will we wade through the debris and physically reach out to the victims of the spiritual tornado? The call continues to ring out from Heaven. I pray and believe that we, the church are beginning to wake up and realize what we've been singing all these years. Our Father's Arms is a living center located in Northeast Alabama for people whose lives have been broken and who need the healing of a loving, Christ centered, family environment.



Our mission:
We are ecumenical and have no denominational preference or affiliation. Our mission is not to promote religion or proselyte but simply to share God's love by helping those in need. God has provided a spacious and beautiful home on 30 acres of wooded land nestled in the foothills of Appalachia in rural Northeast Alabama. It's a place of healing. We're not state or federal funded. We don't require insurance. All of our support to date has been unsolicited. The ministry began early 1996 in a small, abandoned 3 bedroom, 1 bath house that was completely unlivable. It was a broken down and dilapidated eye sore. We were told that it wasn't salvageable. But like the lives of many who called it home, the inside of the old house was made new. All of the work was done by those who lived there and other volunteers. From February 1996 until October 1998 the old house was home for at least 25 people who had nowhere else to go. We were blessed to be able to purchase and move into our present facility in October of 1998. We have regular public meetings on Thursday evenings and Sunday afternoons in our home. Our meetings are informal and at non-traditional church times so that people from various churches can attend and befriend those who live there.

Hurting people don't care how much we know until they know how much we care.


www.ourfathersarms.org

[phil]

Fanny Crosby, the dear blind sister who has helped millions to see,
[also]wrote these words in 1869:

"If you don't put a few spaces here and there
and a couple of judiciously placed paragraphs in your text
nobody will be able to read the damn thing."

Fanny, of course, being blind,
had no such problem ...

[JACkory]

? ? ? ? ? ? ?

[Kensterberg]

I think Phil was trying to point out that Melon's post was not exactly an enticing read, with two very large, very dense paragraphs. Frequent paragraph breaks make it much easier to digest large numbers of sentences. To be fair, I think that was a cut and paste from the group's web page, and so the blame lies with the authors rather than with Melon, unless of course he wrote the thing in the first place.

And I'm afraid I largely skipped over it as well, as the topic sentences didn't grab me and it didn't relate to the most recent discussions on this board (at least that I was aware of). Oh well, my loss, I guess.