JACkory
Struggling Artist
Posts: 167
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Post by JACkory on Nov 22, 2005 9:09:34 GMT -5
Yeah, you have been since I asked the question. That's why I'm still waiting for your answer. Is this an example of that "running away from a debate" that Chrisfan mentioned in her post? I'd like to think not, that perhaps you are collecting your thoughts and contemplating the most effective way to communicate them, after all it is a pretty deep subject, but you DID imply that you had the answer, so I give you the benefit of the doubt and wait. I'm sorry if I came off exasperated by your reluctance to continue a discussion that YOU started here, but it's a result of stuff like this: First of all, this was not meant to be
a balanced analyse of religion and it is not as such
really suited for debate or argument ...The fact that it was NOT a "balanced analyse" of religion, but a CRITICISM makes it PERFECTLY suited for debate/argument. If it were a balanced analysis there would be no need to debate or argue. Why do you think your self-proclaimed "Asshole's Critique of Religion" is above any feedback/discussion it generates? This essay is not about individual faith
but about organized religions...Then why do you bring up "the people who lack in proper judgment and an open mind (who) can quote the Scriptures to the letter, but the only thing they do most of the time is negate the interior truth those myths try to explain"? What do THEY have to do with the big picture of religion that you're trying to expose as a sham? And there's another opportunity for me to reiterate my original question...Please enlighten me as to what is the "interior truth those myths are trying to explain" which, with a little more "proper judgement and an open mind" these Scripture quoters could figure out on their own? And if it is an "interior truth", from where did it come? Feel free to disagree all you want with my POV
and come back with your own take on the subject
but it would be nice if you could quote the whole paragraph
when you want to rebuke something I sayI dunno...that's what I did, but I still got nothing from you. At any rate, I am genuinely interested in your response to the responses I gave to your last lengthy post (the one posted at 10:43 pm by the boards clock). If I've offended you with an unfortunate choice of words in a couple of the paragraphs in a previous post I beg your pardon and ask forgiveness, but I still maintain that I haven't given you sufficient reason to dismiss the entire thread. So get yer chin up, old salt, and let's hear more of what you've got to say... |
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Post by phil on Nov 22, 2005 9:33:35 GMT -5
So your brother had a sweet library. Mine does, too, and his DVD collection rules. Big deal.
I read a few editions of The Humanist in my days as an agnostic, as well, so don't think I'm clueless about where you're coming from.
So you read a few books. Were any of them about Christianity?
One of my mother's brothers is a priest.
He teached philosophy in vocational school (collège classique)
was editor-in-chief of the Québec Bishops' Monthly Journal
and he was also a parish priest in a small village
where he wanted to retire ...
In his small house, he had probably around a thousand books
( and yes ! I did read a few of those ...)
about religion and philosophy and I remember
many wonderful and profound AND animated discussions
we had about religion, faith, humanity and partridge hunting !!
We were not often in agreement
but he never called me ignorant !!
Jac ~ You either pay no attention to what I write
or you are too busy noting your objections
instead of trying to understand what I'm saying !!
Whatever ...
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JACkory
Struggling Artist
Posts: 167
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Post by JACkory on Nov 22, 2005 10:06:07 GMT -5
Jac ~ You either pay no attention to what I write
or you are too busy noting your objections
instead of trying to understand what I'm saying !!
I understand exactly what you were saying. I am sorry you didn't detect the sarcasm in what I wrote.
"Where any of them about Christianity"?...Duh...you DID say the guy was a priest, right? So it would be a logical assumption that several of the books he had were about Christianity. Another logical assumption would be that books about religion were the ones you had reas (since that is what the topic is here)...I assumed both of these things.
"Where any of them about Christianity" was my quirky way of saying "Well, you must have forgotten a lot of what you read".
In the future I will attempt to write in a much more straight forward manner without inserting sarcasm that gets lost on the borders of the language barriers.
Furthermore I would deny your accusation that I am "too busy noting (my) objections
instead of trying to understand what (you're) saying".
Indeed, if I didn't understand what you were saying I would not have been able to elucidate my objections in the manner that I did.
Now stop acting like I called you ignorant.
You know, I'm ignorant about a lot of things, too. I don't know heads-or-tails about how a car engine runs. I am mechanically challenged in that respect. If someone said I was ignorant of auto mechanics I would have no reason to be offended, because it is the truth.
So get over your melodramatic reaction to the word "ignorant" and see it within the context it was placed.
If you disagree with my assessment concerning your knowledge of religion then please, by all means prove me wrong and stop generalizing so much, give me just a hint of a clue that you and I are talking about the same thing when we discuss religion.
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Post by Rit on Nov 22, 2005 10:34:15 GMT -5
that tendency to assume that experts and specialists are the only ones qualified to talk about things, no matter if it is what they are specialized in or whether they are talking about something totally unrelated, is one of the biggest sins of life  |
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Post by Rit on Nov 22, 2005 10:35:40 GMT -5
it breeds inbred theories and arguments.
the broad based open discussion by anyone is the preferred option. So Phil is perfectly right to talk about religion, and the consensus reached among us all is good enough.
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JACkory
Struggling Artist
Posts: 167
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Post by JACkory on Nov 22, 2005 18:43:15 GMT -5
Noone is questioning Phil's right to talk about religion.
And this has nothing to do with anyone being an "expert" or a "specialist".
But when you put your opinions out on the line in the form of criticism you should at least have more than a superficial understanding of the thing you're criticizing.
Phil's posts leave me with the impression that he has not gained the credentials to be criticizing religion. He can talk about it all he wants and tell us how he feels about it (as if we weren't already painfully aware), but when he enters the realm of criticism (of such a powder-keg subject, especially) I would think that he would be held responsible for his comprehension of that which he is slagging.
Do you want to hear my critical opinion of The Shins?
Let's say you do...and I reel off a list of 10 things I hate about them.
You listen politely, but you are struck by the fact that all of my opinions have to do with how they've marketed their music and their fashion sense and their appearance and the kind of guitars I've seen them sporting in photos I just happened to glance at on the internet...
"But wait", you ask, "What about THE MUSIC?"
"Oh", I reply, "I've never heard a note of it, I've just heard people tell me what they sounded like and read a little bit about them on the web."
Are you still interested in my opinion of the Shins?
I'd hope not.
Surely you see the analogy there.
All I've asked Phil to do is show me that he's criticizing the same thing I'm defending.
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Post by strat-0 on Nov 22, 2005 20:54:51 GMT -5
Quit doing your paragraphs like that already, Jac. It's distracting and hard to read. You don't have an excuse. Carry on.  |
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Post by wayved on Nov 22, 2005 22:09:51 GMT -5
Three things never to discuss with anyone-
1. Religion
2. Politics
3. The Great Pumpkin
(thanks Linus)
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Post by Rit on Nov 22, 2005 22:59:10 GMT -5
fair enough. let's all get along.
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JACkory
Struggling Artist
Posts: 167
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Post by JACkory on Nov 23, 2005 9:17:44 GMT -5
Okay, I give up.
I'm tired of waiting for a response from Phil.
I should have known better.
Phil, I will assume, since no answer to my question was forthcoming, that you have no answer to the question I repeatedly asked.
I was under the impression that you wanted to discuss the topic, since you took the time and trouble to post your own thoughts here (as opposed to C&Ping someone else's thoughts like you usually do)...apparently I misunderstood. You must have had some other motive in posting it, I guess.
Anyway, thanks for nothing.
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Post by Rit on Nov 23, 2005 9:32:52 GMT -5
Jac, you have a point there.
the weather is absolutely freezing. I'm about to leave the house, and i'm shivering already.
it's a good day though. have fun all.
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Post by phil on Nov 23, 2005 12:00:35 GMT -5
Jac ~ Even if I had the tiniest shred of hope
that anything I could tell you would be received
without unleashing in response a barrage
of sarcastic, derisive comments, assumptions and questions,
it would still be an exercise in futility
both of us taking shots at each others quotes...
But you'll be happy to know that I will never again
post anything personal about religion again ...
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Post by chrisfan on Nov 23, 2005 12:32:51 GMT -5
Phil of all people turned off by a barrage of sarcastic, derisive comments ... I think I've now seen it all.
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Post by phil on Nov 23, 2005 17:01:30 GMT -5
Phil of all people turned off by a barrage of sarcastic, derisive comments ...
I think I've now seen it all.
HÉ ! It's all in the timing and delivery !!
Some have it and others don't ...ÔÔ...
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JACkory
Struggling Artist
Posts: 167
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Post by JACkory on Nov 23, 2005 18:39:28 GMT -5
HÉ ! It's all in the timing and delivery !!
Some have it and others don't
That's true.
Maybe someday I'll teach you the secret.
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