Greatest Rock Bassist

[rockysigman]

Might as well.

And please note that the poll title specifically says rock bassists. I know Jaco Pastorius and Victor Wooten are awesome, but they have no place in this poll, so don't whine about it.

[Kensterberg]

Macca. One reason that the other Beatles get so little instrumental love is that Paul filled up so much of the songs with those amazing bass lines. Nobody could better combine both the rythmic and melodic elements of the instrument so well, so often.

Entwistle would get my second pick, for similar reasons. Both guys are(were) great musicians who just happen to play bass, and they never let their own technique get in the way of doing what was best for the song. If anything, Entwistle might be a slightly better melodic bassist (listen to his work on The Real Me -- he's playing lead bass for most of that track!), but Macca betters him when it comes to keeping time, plus adding in those untermelodies (check out Taxman for one example of this: the song's primary hook is Paul's bass riff, which also keeps impeccable time).

[rockysigman]

I haven't chosen who I'm voting for, but at the moment I'm leaning towards Mike Watt.

[Weeping_Guitar]

I voted for Jack Bruce.

McCartney & Entwistle would have been my other possibles.

[Kensterberg]

And since I see that there's mention in this list of the guy who played bass in Hendrix' Experience, I'm gonna post this here.

I've been giving that extensive Hendrix box set I borrowed extensive airplay of late, and have come to an interesting conclusion about Jimi. First off, the man wrote some of the worst lyrics of any major rock artist, and wasn't a great singer by any measure. But that's okay, b/c when he was on, he was indeed a rock and roll guitar god and that could render his words and singing completely superfluous.

I'm noticing that my favorite Hendrix bits tend to be the ones that stick closest to traditional blues, however, and I think I've figured out the problem (for my ears anyway). This is gonna sound like sacrilege to a lot of people, but it makes sense to me. As a performing rock and roll band, the Experience, well, sucked. The drummer and bassist did not make a great rythym section, hell, they didn't even make a good one.

Rock and roll drums play one primary role: they ground the music's beat and tempo. Rock and roll bass has both a time keeping function and a melodic one. Similarly, rock and roll guitar has both a rythmic and melodic function (one reason so many rock bands have two guitarists). In a trio setting, it should be possible to shut out the main lyric voice (whether that is guitar, vocal, or even bass) and listen to the remainder of the musicians and have it make rythmic sense.

There are two obvious comparisons for the Experience: their peers in the Who and the later (and far superior) work of Stevie Ray Vaughan's Double Trouble. Comparing the Experience with the Who demonstates that no matter how crazy their parts may have gotten, Entwistle and Moon always played together and provided able support for whatever Townshend and Daltrey were doing. Double Trouble were hardly virtuosos, but listen to what they did for the songs: they kept things cracking along, never letting Stevie get indulgent with his tempos or arbitrary in his playing. Both rythym units sound great even if you remove all the "lead" elements from the recordings.

Similarly, McCartney and Starr did a fabulous job in the Beatles, with Paul providing most of the rythmic frills while Ringo played just enough notes. The Stones did the same sort of thing with Wyman and Watts. This is also the approach that would be followed by punkier units such as the Police (Sting actually was a hell of a bass player in that band, BTW) and the Clash (where Simonon kept things steadily moving while Topper embellished around him). In all of these units, the bass and drums add up to one coherent unit, and that unit sounds fabulous no matter what else is going on.

But with the Experience ... well, the whole is much, much less than the sum of its parts. The end result is, well, dull. And the result is that Jimi really could just as well be playing all by himself ... or playing with himself, as the results could often turn into mere wankery. All of these other units, and those of other (allegedly lesser) bands (such as Husker Du or the Jam) are pushing the music forward, bashing out the songs (or massaging them as the case my be) and keeping the lead players and vocalists honest. Hendrix' work often sounds like a bunch of messing around to my ears in large part b/c there's no sense of the bass and drums doing anything but following along (or playing in their own world). There's too little push and pull, no real dynamicism between the players, no real interaction. Maybe it was all the drugs they were doing, but this has got to be the dullest bass and drum work in rock. Lots of notes, but it's ultimately much ado about nothing, as the parts never lock together, never add up the way that Macca and Ringo did, or Moonie and the Ox, or even Simonon and Headon. (BTW, while I truly think that Topper was one of the greatest drummers, Simonon is nowhere near the cream of the crop among bassists).

I've got to say that, as of the listening that I've done through today, the Experience rank as by far the worst major rythym section in rock. Rick Butler (the Jam) may have fallen back on the same techniques over and over again, but somehow he never put me to sleep. Give me those impassioned amateurs over this wankery any day.

[rockysigman]

So...you prefer the Band of Gypsies?

[Kensterberg]

rockysigman said:

So...you prefer the Band of Gypsies?

It's safe to say that I'd prefer a band of eighth graders.

[shin]

I both think Hendrix is amazing and alternatively one of the most overrated musicians ever. I think part of it is that all of his good songs are just too obvious (All Along the Watchtower, Wind Cries Mary, Foxey Lady, Voodoo Chile, etc) so when you say why you like him, you sound extremely unrefined.

[Galactus]

Paul, JPJ 2nd...

I've said before I think Hendrix is somewhat of a high school level legend, a gateway rock god. There's just nothing deeper about Hendrix, it's surface level genius...notice I still rank him as a legend and a genius but one of those through which you should discover other more fulfilling legends and geniuses.

[Kensterberg]

ded said:

Paul, JPJ 2nd...

I've said before I think Hendrix is somewhat of a high school level legend, a gateway rock god. There's just nothing deeper about Hendrix, it's surface level genius...notice I still rank him as a legend and a genius but one of those through which you should discover other more fulfilling legends and geniuses.

Yeah, that sounds about right. He's not a guy you dig into and discover more with. And I blame part of that on his backup players -- there's just no there, there. Unlike say, the Who, where part of what keeps me going back to stuff like Live at Leeds or The Who Sell Out are the things that Moon and Entwistle are doing behind Roger and Pete.

[skvorisdeadsorta]

I have to say Ken that I find Double Trouble to be probably the most overrated, and quite possibly the most awful, rhythm section to have graced rock music. I also HATE Stevie Ray Vaughn and it's too bad no one really sees him for what he was: a fucking white guy wannabe Hendrix turned into watered down Texas mud and not in a good way. I really only look at him as an okay guitar player in the world's most successfull cover band. As far as his recorded out put, I think it's pure shit.

Fuck Jimi Hendrix too though.....fucking wanky crap.

I don't know who I'm going to vote for though. I love Entwistle and I think his contribution to rock was just incredible. I also love the grooves that Paul and Ringo could do.

Flea and Les Claypool I think are amazing musicians but slap/funk bass gets on my fucking nerves. I've liked both of their main gigs quite a bit but I feel like they are one trick pony bassists though.

John Paul Jones of course is the shit and could lock down a serious groove with Bonzo. Those two should have quit Zeppelin and been rhythm sections for Stax and Motown artists. That would have just been mean as hell.

Cliff Burton and Mike Watt are tied for first for me really because both had huge impacts on me as a drummer and they both are just so original. I saw Mike Watt with J Mascis at SXSW 2002 and it was mind blowing how fucking awesome he was.

Geddy Lee is a great bassist, but he makes me laugh.

Eric Avery to me WAS Jane's Addiction. His baselines are really the things that I remember the most about that band outside of their album art.

Mike Dirnt and Kris Noveselic are good at what they do, that's for sure. I wouldn't say great, but definitely wouldn't kick them out of a band either.

Kim Deal is catchy and fun but hardly great either. But she definitely gets the job done.

Bill Wyman was okay. Lemmy is eh.....Lemmy.

Fieldy and Michael Anthony are probably the worst thing about both the bands Van Halen and Korn. In my opinion they both suck balls. Fieldy also has the worst tone of a signed musician I have ever had the displeasure of being exposed to. Michael Anthony was only cool for one second because he had a Jack Daniels Bass in the "Panama" Video. Other than that, he sucks.

Adam Clayton should be removed and have Brian Eno inserted in his place seeing as how his entire career has been playing Eno basslines behind Edge's guitar stuff.

The fact that there is no Kim Gordon on the list is a tragedy.

All of the other guys on the list are damn fine as well, which is why I'm so hard pressed to pick one.

[rockysigman]

Hey, who's the wiseguy who snuck in and voted for Chris Squire?

It's a message board! Defend your choice, dammit!

Anyway, I just put in my vote for Watt. I know he won't be a popular choice (edit: I guess Skvor agrees with me to some degree. Awesome). But he can do anything any of those other guys can, plus he's one of the more inventive bass players around. No one expressed more personality in their bass playing than Mike Watt. Also one of the few who wrote basslines that are legitimately catchy while also being rhythmic.

[rockysigman]

I almost put Kim Gordon in there. Not really sure why she didn't make the cut. But I was trying to put in a pretty diverse selection. I love her though.

[rockysigman]

Skvor, are you familiar with Watt's solo albums? Everyone I knew owned Ball-Hog or Tugboat? back when I was in middle school, but mostly for all the guest stars. Excellent album, though. And the interplay between Mike Watt and Nels Cline on Contemplating the Engine Room borders on mindblowing. Great stuff.

Haven't gotten around to the Secondmen album yet.

[Galactus]

If you want to hear some cool Watt shit get Dos, it's bass duets with his wife Kira...she sings some too but the bass work is awesome.