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Post by loudaab on Feb 23, 2007 9:24:03 GMT -5
The Exploding Hearts are pretty awesome and that record is fantastic. It's tragic what happened to that band though. I love that record. I would consider them a "wonder" as I think in the future they are going to have a pretty large prescence. To me they are what I wanted The Strokes to be. I do like The Strokes though. Quite a bit actually. Carole King doesn't count as she has written a ton of stuff. Marcy's Playground are fucking terrible. "Marquee Moon" is so good that it beats mosts artists' entire catalog in my opinion. I think it's so fucking good that I place it in the list of "perfect album" more than one album wonder. Yeah, these are all good rationales. My argument for Carole King though is that Tapestry was such a huge album, as far as influening the whole Laurel Canyon singer-songwriter thing that that was beginning to happen at that time. I think she was the first female singer songwriter to really make it big commercially (Joni Mitchell was big wit the critics and Joan Baez recorded other peoples songs mostly). As for Marcy Playground, I think they are slightly better than mediocre, but they were still quite big, probablly more to do with timing and that the industry was still looking desperately seeking a safer (yuppified) version of Nirvana. Also MarPlaGrou kinda showed how formulaic Nirvana's music was to the mainstream... |
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Post by kmc on Feb 23, 2007 11:25:20 GMT -5
I hate you.
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Feb 23, 2007 11:41:42 GMT -5
Marcy's Playground have absolutely nothing to do with Nirvana. Kurt Cobain's songwriting is miles above those guys and it absolutely is not indicative of any kind of "formula" when it comes to Nirvana's music. Nirvana's music was "Verse Chorus Verse", which they even joked about by giving a song the same name. The verse/chorus/verse thing has been that way to construct songs long before Nirvana came along and is still the standard for songwriting. It always has been. Marcy's Playground is just really bad college rock in the vein of Crash Test Dummies and to me share nothing in common with Nirvana other than both at one time were in heavy rotation on "120 Minutes".
(RIP 120 Minutes.....I loved you so.)
"Big Yellow Taxi" was a pretty big hit in it's time for Joni Mitchell, not to mention her long standing association with David Crosby, who championed her greatly at the height of his popularity with Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young.
Carole King isn't the sole reason for Laurel Canyon's popularity or sound. I think David Crosby had WAY more influence there and bands of that era that were living there at the time. The Byrds I think were way more influential than Caroloe King as well as The Mamas and The Papas.
Joan Baez wasn't really interested in being a famous songwriter. She was more interested in being a dove of peace and cultural phenomenon rather than a souless manniquin for teen consumption.
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Post by Kensterberg on Feb 23, 2007 12:03:31 GMT -5
The problem with the rest of the Television catalog is that it is merely good -- much better than mediocre -- while Marquee Moon is that rare absolutely perfect debut album. Just might be the strongest debut in rock, and there's just no way that the band could have ever lived up to that standard.
Carole King has made a ton of recordings, none of which are really awful and a great many of which are quite good. No way you can call Tapestry a one-album wonder b/c it makes absolutely perfect sense in the context of her career as a songwriter as well as a performer.
Marcy's Playground are fucking terrible.
The truth is that both Travelling Wilburys LPs were mediocre -- none of the guys involved were in peak form, except for perhaps Harrison's "Handle Me With Care" which kicked off the whole project. And again, this was a one-off from a bunch of artists who have had stellar careers. How can you call it a one-album wonder? (BTW, it's long since out of print, and due to royalty and copyright disputes is likely to stay that way for the foreseeable future. If you own either cd, keep it in good condition, as it is already appreciating in value -- I believe I paid $30 a couple of years back to replace my missing copy of the first LP).
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Post by Galactus on Feb 23, 2007 12:34:28 GMT -5
The truth is that both Travelling Wilburys LPs were mediocre -- none of the guys involved were in peak form, except for perhaps Harrison's "Handle Me With Care" which kicked off the whole project. And again, this was a one-off from a bunch of artists who have had stellar careers. How can you call it a one-album wonder? (BTW, it's long since out of print, and due to royalty and copyright disputes is likely to stay that way for the foreseeable future. If you own either cd, keep it in good condition, as it is already appreciating in value -- I believe I paid $30 a couple of years back to replace my missing copy of the first LP). I gotta disagree, Vol. 1 at least is very good, it's been a long time since I've heard Vol. 3 though. |
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Post by rockysigman on Feb 23, 2007 13:32:50 GMT -5
Adventure is a very, very good album. But of course it sucks compared to Marquee Moon. Most albums do. I think that Adventure is too good to call Television a one album wonder, but yeah, the difference in quality between those two albums is pretty large. Due to the greatness of the debut though, not due to any weaknesses in the follow up.
The self-titled album isn't very good though.
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Post by loudaab on Feb 23, 2007 15:53:55 GMT -5
The truth is that both Travelling Wilburys LPs were mediocre -- none of the guys involved were in peak form, except for perhaps Harrison's "Handle Me With Care" which kicked off the whole project. And again, this was a one-off from a bunch of artists who have had stellar careers. How can you call it a one-album wonder? (BTW, it's long since out of print, and due to royalty and copyright disputes is likely to stay that way for the foreseeable future. If you own either cd, keep it in good condition, as it is already appreciating in value -- I believe I paid $30 a couple of years back to replace my missing copy of the first LP). I gotta disagree, Vol. 1 at least is very good, it's been a long time since I've heard Vol. 3 though. I've got it on cassete tape, I actually taped over the one obvious Roy Orbison tune on the tape "Not Alone Anymore". That tune and Dylan's "Tweeter and the monkeyman" are the only two weak songs on Vol.1 imo. There are alot of good sing-along drinking songs on that tape: "Dirty world", "Rattled", "Last night", "Congradulations" "End of the Line". I also love "Margarita". Anyway it has an incredibly fun vibe to it that Vol.3 lacks. Adventure is a very, very good album. But of course it sucks compared to Marquee Moon. Most albums do. I think that Adventure is too good to call Television a one album wonder, but yeah, the difference in quality between those two albums is pretty large. Due to the greatness of the debut though, not due to any weaknesses in the follow up. I think if I put Television on my list I would get a lashing, mainly from the cats from ILX.com (who lash me for anything I do anyway) and even though that would be fun I'm actually leaning against putting it on the list... Ken, I have no idea what you mean about Tapestry making "absolutely perfect sense in the context of her career as a songwriter as well as a performer" because I know very little about her career except that she wrote (or co-wrote) a bunch of writing factory-like hits in the 60s (did she work at Brill Building?) and that she had major stage fright up until that part of her career...as for her being part of the Laurel Canyon singer-songwriter thing all I know is Tapestry came out in the middle of all that and that she had Laurel Canyon connections...she certainly wasnt as integral to it as Joni Mitchell or David Crosby or Jackson Brown, but she was at least on the periphery... |
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Feb 23, 2007 16:14:46 GMT -5
PEW, if you go to Wikipedia and type in Carole King, you get to look at exactly which songs she wrote.
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Post by loudaab on Feb 25, 2007 21:19:10 GMT -5
Thank you skvor.
So i've basically got my one-album wonder list cut down to the final list, bu there are five albums still on the fence. I'm pretty sure 3 of these 5 will make the list, but the other 2 are iffy:
the Las
minor threat
the vaselines
life without buildings
rites of spring
anyone want to guess which 3 I'm leaning toward?
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Feb 25, 2007 22:54:32 GMT -5
Minor Threat is a no because they only had one album and the same goes with Rites of Spring.
The Vaselines only had one album.
In fact, I think all of them did one album, and though I love them, I don't know. To me "one album wonder" is kind of like a one hit wonder: They tried to do several albums but only the one was good.
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Post by Mary on Feb 25, 2007 23:03:55 GMT -5
The problem with the rest of the Television catalog is that it is merely good -- much better than mediocre -- while Marquee Moon is that rare absolutely perfect debut album. Just might be the strongest debut in rock, and there's just no way that the band could have ever lived up to that standard. I absolutely agree, but it suddenly strikes me - it's interesting how much you like Marquee Moon. I would imagine it's the sort of album that could be described as "wanky" - certainly has long enough songs, and plenty of instrumental noodling. I'd be curious to hear what elevates MM out of the "wanking" category for you. |
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Post by Ryosuke on Feb 25, 2007 23:34:34 GMT -5
Marquee Moon is great. Viva wankery.
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Post by Kensterberg on Feb 25, 2007 23:45:17 GMT -5
The problem with the rest of the Television catalog is that it is merely good -- much better than mediocre -- while Marquee Moon is that rare absolutely perfect debut album. Just might be the strongest debut in rock, and there's just no way that the band could have ever lived up to that standard. I absolutely agree, but it suddenly strikes me - it's interesting how much you like Marquee Moon. I would imagine it's the sort of album that could be described as "wanky" - certainly has long enough songs, and plenty of instrumental noodling. I'd be curious to hear what elevates MM out of the "wanking" category for you. Um, how about the fact that it's really, really good. ;D Seriously, there are plenty of "reasonable" length songs on MM to balance out the extended cuts, and there's nothing per se wanky about instrumentals -- I love jazz, remember? -- it's pointless instrumental (or vocal) noodling that bothers me. And frankly, there are damn few moments in MM that aren't necessary -- which notes exactly could be edited out? Even I don't hear them. Marquee Moon is a truly sublime, beautiful, and profoundly mature record. There's no way that the band could have lived up to that debut, the rest of their career HAD to be a disappointment by comparison. It's like if Bob Dylan had released Highway 61 Revisited as his debut record, or if Abbey Road or Revolver had been the first Beatles album. Not saying that the other Television records are up to the quality of the rest of the Beatles or Dylan catalogs, but MM certainly deserves to be spoken of in these terms. |
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Post by Kensterberg on Feb 25, 2007 23:59:50 GMT -5
What kind of a hole does a music fan have to live in to be ignorant of the enormity of the Carole King songbook? Especially any one who fancies themselves to be historically knowledgable and/or an expert on rock and roll?
And considering that she had seven top 20 albums in the US AFTER Tapestry, there's no way anyone can call her a "one album wonder."
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Post by loudaab on Feb 26, 2007 8:51:55 GMT -5
What kind of a hole does a music fan have to live in to be ignorant of the enormity of the Carole King songbook? Especially any one who fancies themselves to be historically knowledgable and/or an expert on rock and roll? And considering that she had seven top 20 albums in the US AFTER Tapestry, there's no way anyone can call her a "one album wonder." ken, I think you are forgetting (or else you've never been taught) that one of the most important tenets of rockjism is Inclusiveness. What this means is that you want everyone to be included in the discussion and one way to do that is by inviting people who don't know a whole lot about certain genres/types of music to be introduced to it. The best way to do this is to introduce that person to 'gateway' artists or 'gateway' albums. Tapestry is one of those 'gateway' albums. It is an album that most people with even the slightest interest in music or the singer-songwriter era/genre have some familiarity with. Now, the singer-songwriter genre is not Rock-n-Roll. It IS however connected to Rock. Rock is different from Rock-n-Roll ken. Rock is much more encompassing whereas Rock-n-Roll is a very specific genre within the Rock pantheon. Within each genre/area of Rock it is good to point out certain landmark 'gateway' albums. Tapestry in all its genius is a landmark not only in the singer-songwriter genre, but also in the female artists genre and it also touches on the important Laurel Canyon scene. And of course it has great songs. So for all of these reasons Tapestry stands out head and shoulders above any of King's other albums. And BTW being a Top 20 album does not really equate to being a "wonder". Although unprecedented enormous comercial success would make an album a "wonder", simply being a Top 20 album does not. |
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