Wacko - the second nose

[Matheus]

BTW, I finished all of Matthew the other day using the NIV version of the bible, which I dutifully found on the internet. They also have a commentary on the entire bible as well, which helps out. biblegateway.com is the site.

(note: I haven't had a chance to go any further due to studyiing for my college placement test.)

It was probably one of the most interesting things I've ever read, and it pretty much summed up what you guys were saying before... that I really didn't have an idea what Jesus Christ was about.

It's been a weird couple of months.

Shortly after our original conversations on the subject, I met a kid who's going to bible school. He's an awesome kid. Really represents "good people" in my book. I try and talk to him as much as possible, but it's kind of hard considering we're both at work, and faith is pretty taboo at work.

Not that I give a shit.

There are a couple of other religious people at work, both women. One is named Nancy, she's one of the sweetest women I've ever met, and then there's Rita, who goes out of her way to share her knowledge with me.

Nancy probably said one of the most interesting things to me. I had spoken to her about how much I love the bible, and how much it interests me, and how I'd like to study it further. She shot back at me (which is sort of weird because she's not as button pushing as Rita is), "it all depends on whether or not you see it as a textbook or the living word." She has invited me to her church.

Rita, on the other hand, she talks in pretty much the same way most people talk about Jesus. How I need to take it into my heart, etc. She's cool, though. She has also invited me to her church for a function.

Then the other night, I was at the house of some friends. Somehow the conversation turned to the subject of higher stuff, and I'm not the type of person who talks about their faith. One of my friends said that I don't believe in God... which is false, and of course I called him out on it. I don't like the word "God," cause the God I believe in can't be lumped in with all the other ones. I dunno, a lot of times, it's a matter of semantics for me. I hate the word religion, and much prefer faith. Anyway, so one of the other people there, said something about how "God" wants us to suffer. This is the only time I've ever done this in my life, but I did shoot back. I thought it was ridiculous. I said, yeah, there's suffering in the world, but suffering is our choice. We chose it, and we choose it. Period.

I read Genesis before I read Matthew, and that also gave a lot of insight. "God" said don't eat the fruit from that tree, Eve ate from it, Adam ate from it, and instantaneously, they brought themselves into suffering. And we still do it today.

I could be way off, here, but that's my point of view.

[chrisfan]

jackory said:

But PLEASE tell me you didn't miss that POWERFUL song by Brooks & Dunn...

Saw it. Thought it was outstanding. But then, what do they ever do that ISN'T outstanding?

Oh, more food for thought on the presence of people like Bon Jovi, Elton John, and Billy Joel there last night ... there used to be an attitude that a country act couldn't REALLY make it unless they crossed over into pop. I'd say that having so many non country acts want to be at the CMAs indicates that country is now officially viewed as a desirable genre of music that people want to cross in to rather than the other way around.

[chrisfan]

Matt, I'm very glad that you've been doing some reading and enjoying it! I'm even more glad that you've found some people you can talk to about these subjects who you trust and respect!

Couple of things which jumped in my mind from your post ... Religion vs Faith (and I'd add vs Spirituallity). When my minister first started at my church, he made the statement once that he did not see himself as a religous person. It shocked me when he said it, and i thought "um, dude, you kind of picked the wrong job then". He went on to explain that in his eyes, a religious person is focused on study, and sees that as the most important thing. A spiritual person is focused on God's presence, and sees being in touch with that as the most important thing. I tend to agree with that, and I tend to see myself as more spiritual. I see it as somewhat the same as there are some peole who learn better from reading, some who learn better from hearing, and some who learn better from doing. Religious vs spiritual is not a matter of what is good and what is bad. I think it's just a matter of each works with different levels of effectiveness for different people.

And suffering ... I think I'd come down somewhere between your friend and you in that. I don't necessarily think that God WANTS to see us suffer, as we'd think of it in a painful punishing way. But I think that if you look at the stories in the bible, and if I look at my own life, there have most definitely been times when suffering has brought me closer to God, and brought me more on course to following God's will in my life. I agree with you that the improper practice of free will going against God's will can most certainly bring about suffering. But I think God uses suffering as a way to make us better, so from that respect, I'd say He can WANT us to suffer ... if that makes any sense.

At any rate, thank you for the update! I hope you keep reading, keep talking, and keep posting!

I"m also excited to hear you're preparing for college placements tests! What are your plans there?

[Matheus]

On the spirituality thing: I don't think a person can be spiritual without faith, which is why I use that word over religion. Spirituality and faith go hand in hand, me thinks. Without faith, you can't connect, and without spirituality, a person isn't connecting. I dunno, that's just me.

Suffering:
I see things in one way, and one way only, and that all good things come from "God" and all the bad comes from "Satan." One might think that I'm being a bit unrealistic, but everything I can think of straight down the line, and if you look at the bible, is something that we chose. We chose death, people choose to murder, rob, steal, lie, and it continues on right down the line. What we do with that suffering is yet another choice. Suffering brings you closer to God, that's a good thing, suffering sends you into a downward spiral, and that is of Satan. We choose our path, but the path to God is always open. Suffering came along with the biting of the fruit, God never wished it for us, we chose.

As for college,
I'm going back to school with a tentative plan. I'm either going for a business degree, or one in Information Technology. I have a good portion of my associates already done for Business Administration, and I have enough free electives to experiment a little in the world of technology, so I'm going the route of taking some Gen. Ed. courses (which are required anyway, and can be transferred into the Information Technology degree) and some stuff I'm allowed to take for the Technology degree. Business would be the quickie way to have an actual degree, but in the long run, Information Technology would get me a better job. It's pretty much known that to get a decent job in the Business world, you kind of need a Master's... so either way, I just have to choose.

The placement test was stupid, just took it yesterday. I knew I'd have to brush up on Math for the Tech courses, and I planned on learning Algebra and Trig all over again, but because I had to take the placement test in Math (apparently Business Math doesn't count), I could only brush up on Algebra. I'm quite proud that I did as well as I did in the pre-college Math part (I got a 94) considering I haven't taken that kind of Math in 6 years, and only had 2 weeks to study. I bombed college level Math, but considering I didn't take any of that stuff, I did pretty well with a 28.

[chrisfan]

Sounds like you've got a good college plan going on. Good for you!

Interesting perspective on suffering. I question though whether everything can be categorized down the line as either good or bad. Take water as an example. It sustains life, so it must be good. But woudln't the flood victims in New Orleans view it as a bad thing? As would the mother who just lost a child to drowning? I view water as a good thing that is a gift from God ... but there are negative aspects to it as well. In your view, do those bad aspects of water come from Satan? Can something come from BOTH God and Satan? I say no, but I'm curious to know what you think.

[chrisfan]

Jac, I just needed to say that I'm listening to Brooks and Dunn right now, and I must correct something I said earlier. What have they ever done that wasn't outstanding? See Jane Dance. I require myself to hit "skip" every single time that song comes on. Of course, when it does, I get to skip to "Only In America" and all the sudden, everything they've done is outstanding again. But See Jane Dance ... definite weak spot in the B&D catalog.

[JACkory]

There's always a bit of filler on every country album. That's a tradition as old as the Grand Ole Opry.
Those pop/rock acts view country music as a "desirable genre of music to cross over into" only because they realize that modern country is more or less adult contemporary and this is what they're already doing so why not expand the fan base a bit and sell a few more records? Plus, the CMA folks paid 'em well...and they (the CMA) wanted to look "hip" seeing as how they moved the whole shebang to New York...CBS probably thought it would be a good idea to garner some pop/rock star power, seeing how country CD sales have been so dismal lately.
To be honest, I thought Carrie Underwood was a lot more (and better) country than that girl who sang the song about kerosene and set the stage on fire (lame gimmick, that was).
It's cool that you like that stuff...but it's not for me.
Bon Jovi and Keith Urban...in many ways it's hard to tell the difference anyway, so why not have 'em both on the show, eh?

Matt...good to hear from you. Glad you're journey is progressing.
Check out www.theooze.com. You might like that site.

[Ampage]

Very interested to see who does what on the Cash tribute tonight. Not a big fan, but seems like it could prove entertaining nonetheless. And I definitely seeing Walk the Line. The trailers look fantastic. I just hope that if the performances are as brilliant as I have been reading that they are not shot down because of the Ray factor from last year.

[kool]

Chrisfan, check ur email.

[Matheus]

My thoughts:

Firstly, and once again, it all comes to the beginning. What was the original intention? I've looked at the story of the creation of our existence, both from a metaphorical and literal depiction of it. Either way, I come back to the same answer. The original intention was not for suffering. If you look at it in a spiritual light straight from the bible, it's obvious that the original intention was for Adam and Eve to receive the gifts our creator gave them. Everything was handed to them with only one stipulation...

"You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

It later goes onto say...

"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

From a metaphorical standpoint, and obviously from my study of Kabbalah... what is evil? Evil is our disconnection from our Creator. Satan has no power over us unless we disconnect. When do we act in an evil manner? When we want to take for ourselves.

This is the best example I have. While I was away on vacation in August down in South Carolina, my grandfather passed away. As much as I knew he had lung cancer that spread to his head, I visited him the day before I left, and he was very upbeat, optimistic, was doing very well, but alas, the day after I arrived I received the call. Before I left, all he talked about was my trip, wanting me to have a good time, etc. etc. etc. I didn't go back for the services because of this. I remember when I was down there feeling sorry for myself, and my loss, because y'know this man I loved and truly admired was no longer in my life. But the message of it all stuck with me, to stay down there, as he would have wanted, and not stop living. I remember looking out in the ocean thinking about him, and I knew what I had to do. Celebrate life, not ruin everyone else's good time, and I did it.

The point I'm making here is that suffering is truly a state of mind.

New Orleans was truly a great devastation, and I don't mean to compare my own misfortune to it, but the fact of the matter is that we're here, we're living, and I don't think sitting around doing nothing, or doing bad things during tragedy, getting angry, feeling sorry for ourselves, etc. does anything, and yes, I do find all of that to be a product of Satan. He makes us feel sorry for ourselves, he makes us do bad things, etc. and we ultimately choose it.

Whether or not God is the reason behind any of this is something I don't have an answer for. Some would say yes, some would say no... I'd probably be more on the "no" side of the answer, but that's my own point of view.

I'm going to end this saying: When we conquer something like a tragedy and see it for what it is, and move on from it, we feel more accomplishment than drowning in negative shit.

[chrisfan]

kool said:

Chrisfan, check ur email.

I checked it Jordan Kool!


I missed the Cash tribute damnit. I thought it was at 10, not 8. I had a meeting, got home about 9:45, thought I'd be able to watch it, and NO! How was it?

[JACkory]

Matt, I think it's cool that you learned something about Jesus that you didn't know before by reading the Gospel According to Matthew (incidentally, BibleGateway is a very cool resource). Just to satisfy my curiosity I was wondering if you'd mind telling me what you think are the most significant things you found that you didn't know before...
You can PM your response if you don't want to post it on the boards (for whatever reason).
Looking forward to your reply.

[JACkory]

Time for me to change avatars again...these funny-ha-ha ones have a short shelf-life.

[poseidon]

Taken from: A Letter Attributed to Clement of Alexandria Concerning The Secret Gospel Of Mark:


"To them, therefore, as I said above, one must never give way ; nor, when they put forward their falsifications, should one concede that the secret Gospel is by Mark, but should even deny it on oath. For, "For not all true things are to be said to all men". For this reason the Wisdom of God, through Solomon, advises, "Answer the fool with his folly," , teaching that the light of the truth should be hidden from those who are mentally blind. Again it says, "From him who has not shall be taken away" and "Let the fool walk in darkness". But we are "children of Light" having been illuminated by "the dayspring" of the spirit of the Lord "from on high", and "Where the Spirit of the Lord is" , it says, "there is liberty", for "All things are pure to the pure".

For the letter in its entirety click on the below link:

www.webcom.com/gnosis/library/secm.htm

[poseidon]

You know about the secret gospel according to mark right? Basically its says its o.k. to be gay per Jesus.