Do politics keep you from liking certain artists?

[Artknocker]

chrisfan said:

There are others who I think do it for publicity, and I can't stand them. I'm sorry, but it's going to take a long long time for me to give the political arguments of George Clooney or Ben Affleck any weight - primarily because they consist of a quick statement and absolutely nothing to back it up. It's that "My voice should be listened to because I'm famous" attitude that I have no patience for.

[Artknocker]

The two above quotes sum up what my beef is all about.

scottsyii said:

I have to agree with Mary there... Bono may be in our faces, but I don't think his political beliefs are contemptible in any way... and I guess he is in our faces alot because he uses his profile to further what are, by and large, good and worthy causes... Generally speaking I think the guy has honourable intentions.

That may be; I won't argue against it. Look, U2 has always had a political element, so you expect Bono to be outspoken. What I find so contemptible is the extreme liberal politics of ill-informed idiots like Tim Robbins and Moby and the lengths they will go to to just spout their ideological talking points and relentlessly attack conservatives for (gasp!) being conservative because they think people are so stupid (and some probably are) as to take them at their every word just because they said so instead of putting more stock in someone who's actually in a position to know. I think such misguiding influence is an abuse of their celebrity and to Moby I say "get back to making the cool electronic sounds, dude, and keep your political opinions to yourself because politics has nothing to do with what you do." Seriously, no one at my work asks me what my political leanings are, and I don't volunteer them. But, of course, there's a different set of rules in place when you're rich and famous. And if an artist starts incorporating political messages into their music or performance once they gain an audience, it just comes off as disingenuous and taking advantage of their platform (not to mention their fans). Why would anyone at a Pearl Jam concert care to listen to Eddie Vedder's political rantings (and I say this even if he was right-wing)? They're there for the tunes, dude! (And to toke up.)

As for Toby Keith being a moron, Thorn, how can you say that when he's a Democrat but in support of the war? That obviously shows that he can think for himself and isn't a Kool-Aid drinker. Obviously 9/11 affected him deeply and like Chrisfan has said, I don't think being loving your country and being proud of it should be a political issue. All Americans should be patriotic, and that doesn't mean you can't admit when America's gone wrong, either. At least we try to right wrongs.

[JACkory]

Toby Keith IS a moron.
His moronic aspects have nothing whatsoever to do with his political ideologies or his support of the war.
He just ain't very bright, and that's the bottom line.
Trust me...I know people who know the guy.
They all agree.
He's a moron.

And I think it's patently unfair for you to characterize Tim Robbins and/or Moby as "ill-informed". How, prey tell, do you judge them as such? What is your criteria for "well-informed" and why do you assume that they don't meet it? I doubt you've ever had a sit-down discussion with either one of them.
You've obviously never read the liner notes from Moby's debut album Everything Is Wrong if you think that he has EVER been about simply "making the cool electronic sounds".
You really picked an appropriate avatar, as you come off as if you're trance-channeling that self-righteous toad O'Reilly (and hey, I'm a conservative)...
Finally, I think you underestimate the capacity of Pearl Jam fans to hear Mr. Vedder out and either agree or not...it's kind of an insult, don't you think, to say they're only there for the "tunes" and to "toke up" (as if you had even a modicum of experience "toking up" and can speak for those who partake).

[Nepenthe]

mary said:

btw, the only music i wouldn't listen to because of political expression would be in cases where i thought the politics were utterly abhorrent - like some of the neo-nazi black metal stuff or explicitly racist oi! bands or whatever.

this is a dumb question but is elton john really very politically outspoken? i mean, duh, i know he's gay, but i never associated his music with political conviction before, until i read your post...

...and what exactly is bono's "contemptible" political stance, anyway? that he wants to relieve the debt of poor countries? that he wants to combat aids in africa? that he bemoans the history of violence and bloodshed in ireland? that he wants to relieve the suffering of poor people? i mean... i suppose you can disagree with his particular approach to some of these issues, but it seems a bit far-fetched to find any of them contemptible!! maybe i've missed something...

M

Mary, it is interesting you brought this up about the Black Metal bands, I just made a post about them on the book worm thread.

[chrisfan]

I'm not familiar enough with Moby's politics to comment on him, but I'd have to agree with Jac that to characterize Tim Robbin's as ill-informed is not accurate. There may be people in the world who know their history and/or current events better than Tim Robbins, but the dude knows his shit. My beef with Tim Robbins is that he seems to be so adverse to any level of dissent to what he says. I've always believed that if you don't want to be told people disagree with you, then your opinions need to stay in your head.

[shin]

artknocker said:

Then perhaps you should take your own advice, shin, and get off my ass.

chrisfan said:

I've always believed that if you don't want to be told people disagree with you, then your opinions need to stay in your head.

[luke]

Some bands can work with the political thing, some bands can't. I think System of a Down is currently doing a MUCH better job than Rage ever did, but who knows what Rage would be doing right now if they'd made it further into the Bush administration. I prolly still wouldn't like them, but it'd be a lot fucking better than Audioslave.

Oh, and Toby Keith is, absolutely, unequivocally, a fucking idiot.

[chrisfan]

shin said:

artknocker said:

Then perhaps you should take your own advice, shin, and get off my ass.

chrisfan said:

I've always believed that if you don't want to be told people disagree with you, then your opinions need to stay in your head.

There is a very big difference between stating your disagreement, and advertising your refusal to hear someone out. I think that Tim Robbins should get over this wish he has that every time he speaks, everyone just says "yes, I agree". However, if every time he spoke, the same person showed up and yelled "I'm not listening, I"m not listening" over and over again, I think Tim would be justified in being a bit pissed.

[skvorisdeadsorta]

I think that everyone is entitled to their opinion, educated or not.

Moby has been very overtly political from the beginning. I actually have alot of the opposite feelings about Moby. I think he's extremely intelligent and well-read, but I find his music to be very blah blah blah. "Everything Is Wrong" was probably about the only record of his that I halfway liked just because some of it stretched off a bit from the norm of what he was used to working in. Also, the guy was in alot of hardcore bands in the 80s that were very anti-Reagan and I just don't think that's something he can turn off.

Toby Keith is just really annoying. I don't think he's an idiot, I just think he's really sized up his audience well.

RATM was reprehensible to me in their prime mostly because I doubted and still do doubt their sincerity. Also, I disagreed with using the image of Che for their promotional items so that I could see every white racist aggorrant frat goon on campus wear one of those shirts. At first I laughed at the irony and then I just got a little sick.

But whatever.........in the end, who really cares. Everyone's human and they are going to formulate opinions that are far from our own. I sometimes think that's what makes the human spirit alot more fun to be around.

[JACkory]

My problem with Toby Keith has nothing to do with the level of his functional intelligence and everything to do with the fact that the guy just cannot sing. The absolute WEAKEST voice in all of country music.

[Mary]

artknocker said:

mary said:

now - that's not to say i don't cringe when i hear some clueless musician or actor start loudly and arrogantly mouthing off about some political issue in a fashion that betrays their complete cluelessness.

Erm, with all due respect, if you're going to quote me to back up your position, please don't rip a quote completely out of context such that you transform my entire point into its precise opposite.

I disagree with almost everything you've said on this board. That's fine, no problem, agree to disagree, blah blah blah, but don't misrepresent my position.

M

[skvorisdeadsorta]

JAC.....I honestly don't think I've heard of any new male country artists that can sing in my opinion. Not one.....I guess I'm just too much into the old school.

[chrisfan]

I'd have to say I can think of a heck of a lot more male country artists who I think are very talented as song writers or guitar players than singers. Willie Nelson in my mind is the king of country men, and I consider him an outstanding song writer and an okay singer.

[Artknocker]

Whatever, Mary--that wasn't even the point. But it's not like people aren't going to remember that you said a whole lot more than that (you always do). And it's not like I misquoted you. You do stand by that quote, do you not? Anyway, my sole intent was to show how I feel, not how you feel. And another thing I feel is slighted that I didn't receive a "Cheers" there. No one can ever say that they don't know when you're pissed, that's for sure!

Hey, Shin-head, I don't give a shit if people disagree with me. I know good and well my views are going to be roundly critiqued before I even type them. That's what I'm looking for--debate. You, on the other hand, just want to criticize me for even having them. If you don't like what I have to say, you don't have to come to my board. I thought you weren't reading my posts anyway.

JAC -- So what if Moby has always been politically active? I still say it has nothing to do with making cool electronic sounds. If being politically active means that much to him and Tim Robbins (and even Toby Keith) then maybe they should take a page out of Arnie's book and run for office. Then we'll see how informed and intelligent they really are. Btw, have you ever had a sit-down conversation with any of them? Which reminds me, I know people who know tokers. They all agree. They're morons.

[chrisfan]

So the only acceptable way to be politically active is to run for office Art? Sorry, but I don't think that is the case in the slightest. Some are poltically active by running for office. Others are active by voting, giving speaches, writing letters to the editor, being columnists and pundits, writing songs, making films, volunteering on campaigns, participating in debates on message boards, etc.

We see how well informed and intelligent these people are (celebrities and other politically active people) by listening to what they say, and how well they can back it up. In a debate, do they rattle off the same incessant soundbites, or do they offer up some original thought?

Finally, it seems quite strange to me that you're taking Jac to task for making a comment on a person's level of being informed, because he's never himself sat down and talked with them. Yet, you don't hold back at all in declaring people I assume you've never sat down and had a converstation with to be ill-informed.