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Post by Meursault on Aug 25, 2004 11:08:18 GMT -5
Mary: I know about girls just wanting to get laid to. Currently i have this hot milf, that wants to go salsa dancing with me, i'm hoping she's a ravenous nymph.  |
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Post by bowiglou on Aug 25, 2004 11:52:22 GMT -5
rockdoc..thank for the link to the X article..................and to think I shook John Does' hand!!
Interesting conversation you're all having re: relationships.........to some extent I do agree with Mary insofar when one is in the late teens/early 20s, unless one is permanently ensconced in some job/locations, one is still flexing and finding their way around the world....contingent on one's plans, which may entail relocation, grad school, internships, traveling, etc, sometimes "settling" may be problematic...............it's funny, back in the 70s, it was almost the norm that a woman got married by around the mid-20s.........I had a few male friends that also married quite young.........however, I was well aware that my arrested development/adolescence precluded such a sequealae fo events, and I really wasn't ready to be married until my 30s...........(and even then, my first selection was fairly suboptimal!!)..............I've seen some of the young marriages work out (as I'm sure Tunes will!!) and some not...in fact, I know two dear friends who having met at college (and I remember the occasion, it was a 1978 party where I was introduced to Talking Heads for my first time, and all these journalism majors were doing the worm!!!!) are now divorcing 25 years hence.............they've simply outgrown each other. So, there are no guarantees.......................I do think there are some that are of the predisposition to marry early, and prefer a monogomous relationship in their early 20s.............and, hopefully, they have the steadfast maturity to go along. But, this is when self-awareness is imperative..........we all have varying developmental trajectories, and what may be optimal for Tunes at her age may be disasterous for Mary!!!....................however, that being said, if we go with the developmental argument that there are "critical stages" when we are primed for such major life events (i.e, marrying, having children, etc.) then what is the probability that we will shoot ourselves in the foot by dismissing someone that could have been the perfect mate!!! (I use the national geograhic term for significant other for Mary's bemusement).
Shit, at 47 I finally found the absolutely perfect woman............so I'm the last one to be doling out free advice about relationships..........when I was deep into my alcoholism and ancillary substance use, I made tons of stupid mistakes........but I was also sober when I selected my first wife which also had it's shares of calamities!!
OH MY GOD........what if the sequence of events that culminate in relationships is totally a random phenomenon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Thorngrub on Aug 25, 2004 13:32:42 GMT -5
Mary -- lol, I just stumbled across your River's Edge raving-post, waaaay back here on this board, and just wanted to put a word in, that yes, it is one of the greatest movies, and I may as well add it to the "Best Ever" contendors competition for me, from Weeping's Movie Board.
I am rather looking forward to Keanu Reeve's CONSTANTINE, coming soon. I used to read HELLBLAZER back in the day . . . so needless to say, I can hardly wait. Looks as if it will be getting a decent treatment.
And then . . . he is to portray Bob Arctor.
Can you say "Fuck?"
--?
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Post by RocDoc on Aug 25, 2004 13:51:45 GMT -5
Maybe it's the way he said it(well, Bow puts things in a, shall we say, 'funny' way often), but this...
..........(and even then, my first selection was fairly suboptimal!!)
...had me rollling on the floor.
'Suboptimal'??
~
I could NEVER have imagined being married in my 20s such as they were...all being played out through the mid-70s through mid-80s....
NOT husband material.
NOT Dad material.
Neither of those.
Yet. At that point in time.
Lots of long-er term, 'serious' relationships with some wonderful women(many of whom I'm still friends with)but that plunge was not to be...back in those days.
42 seemed like a good time however...
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Post by Mary on Aug 25, 2004 14:35:44 GMT -5
Oh, absolutely, just to be clear, honesty is important whether you're embarking on a long-term relationship or a one-night stand. If each person is expecting something different, you're in trouble. I just wanted to express my frustration with portrayals of men as driven 100% exclusively by lust and women driven 100% exclusively by long-term love.
Also, with regard to tunes' situation.... I really wouldn't even bat an eye at someone who met their significant other (or their "mate" as mr. iglou wryly puts it!!) in their early 20s and then waited 6 years (or however long, exactly) to get engaged. It's not like you and S exchanged rings 3 months after you met each other! Obviously you've established your long-term compatibility. Granted, part of what really fucked with me when it came to my friend's situation was that she and her (soon to be ex) husband had been together 7 and a half years before they got married and still everything just shattered almost right after the "I Do"s. However in retrospect a lot of the conversations we had long before this happened should have made it less shocking - she never quite seemed like the right personality type to be settling into this very domestic, routine lifestyle so young. She obviously had a lot of discontent and anxiety about it long before she ever got married, and at the time I just thought that was her personality generally - someone who always had a sort of quiet discontent about her - but in retrospect it also signified something deeper was broken in her relationship. And that is very obviously not the case for tunes.
To be completely honest, it's possible all of this is just my own post-hoc psychological coping mechanism, given that my own 7-year relationship that I thoguht was going to culminate in marraige as soon as I graduated from college instead fell apart. Maybe I'm just trying to construct some view of relationships that puts a more positive spin on what was the hardest thing I've ever had to deal with. So maybe no one should listen to me at all here!
And of course, bow has to be ultimately right with his different strokes for different folks approach! Whatever works for you is cool. Me, I am just glad to live in an era when being 26 and single isn't viewed as over the hill!!!
Cheers,
M
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Post by Mary on Aug 25, 2004 14:53:27 GMT -5
...oh, and just one more thing on this subject....
The one thing I worry about in conversations like this is that they often seem to imply that getting married younger is a sign of greater maturity, and that people who wait until their 30s (or whenever - perhaps even never!) to get married have to wait because they are not yet sufficiently mature. I think this can certainly be true in some cases, but I also think there can be very immature reasons for getting married young, and very mature reasons for waiting, or for never getting married at all.
I suppose it's possible I'm getting unnecessarily defensive or something, but among the many reasons I spent most of my 20s single (besides just not meeting the right person!) are ones that I still embrace today and that I don't think were simply immaturity. For one thing, I needed time to be on my own and to figure out who I was by myself after a 7-year relationship fell apart at the end of college. I think there's this stereotype of the unmarried 30-something as someone who just wanted to prolong their adolescence and spent their 20s fucking around, getting drunk, being promiscuous, avoiding responsibility, etc etc. I just want to point out that one can be a responsible adult outside the context of establishing a traditional family.
My ex-boyfriend and I had talked about our would-be wedding so many times when I was in college. To this day if I imagine myself getting married, I somehow can't help imagining him as the groom. Yet I still realize, now, had I done that, I would have been with the same person since I was 13 years old - I would not have been single since early junior high. I would never have been a single adult. Ever. When everything fell apart I realized I had to take advantage of the time to finally figure out my subjectivity outside of this other person who had always been there, who practically completed my self-identity for me. This is a large part of the reason I didn't date for a long time in my 20s, and I hope it's more compelling than simple immaturity and not-ready-ness or some adolescent desire to keep on drinking and having one-night stands. Because that wasn't it at all.
M
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niamh
Streetcorner Musician
aka sunnygirl
Posts: 49
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Post by niamh on Aug 25, 2004 16:29:09 GMT -5
Well, I for one wish my life was boring and uneventful! I am startled by how similar your friend's current situation is to mine, Kelly. Well, my situation recently took an upturn. I moved out on my own. Break ups are hard no matter the circumstances, but they are made much worse when you have to live with you ex for almost 4 months after breaking up, which is what happened to me. Don't get me wrong, Andrew did his best, we both did our best, give the circumstances....It's just a really extraordinary situation and it makes getting over the other person almost impossible. I feel for your friend, Kelly.
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Post by lumencandle on Aug 25, 2004 16:52:39 GMT -5
Just to follow up on the last men-convo here; I just hope that the general consensus might be that you ladies haven't found the right man yet... I'm searching for a ladyfriend myself and I haven't been succesful so far either. Some of the girls I liked at first instance turned out to be either self-obsessed (yes, those 27-year old mobile-addicts, ueb!) or had such low self-esteem that I felt like Dr. Phil sometimes in an effort to cheer them up and give advice. I don't know. The trick is not to blame yourself constantly for something not working out, but also not blaming the other. I still am learning, even though I'm fairly old now. Lumen- please stay happy. I can take any apocalypse coming my way! I will try to stay happy for you, maartsy! And I realize now I did that thing where I make it out like all guys are scum. Actually, one of my exes was pretty mature and I can't really think of anything bad to say about him...But geez, there have ben some real losers come 'round my way and for a while I was convinced something was wrong with me...So I guess I've gone a bit too far the other way now. Sorry. You're right, there has to be a happy medium of recognizing your own faults and the other peron's... I just got teary-eyed on the phone because my best friend, like, BEST FRIEND who got engaged a month ago confirmed her plans to have a small destination wedding with no guests...I had been hoping she would, kind of, because I'm going broke dealing with all these other weddings. But I got so sad to think of her married and me not there. And then I was thinking how all my girlfriends are dropping like flies and it really is a BIG DEAL. it's not really like we're going to be the same. Anyway, then I started to feel silly and I guess I just have separation anxiety since she's my closest friend since childhood. Am I crazy, someone tell me? |
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Post by lumencandle on Aug 25, 2004 17:16:05 GMT -5
I suppose it's possible I'm getting unnecessarily defensive or something, but among the many reasons I spent most of my 20s single (besides just not meeting the right person!) are ones that I still embrace today and that I don't think were simply immaturity. For one thing, I needed time to be on my own and to figure out who I was by myself after a 7-year relationship fell apart at the end of college. I think there's this stereotype of the unmarried 30-something as someone who just wanted to prolong their adolescence and spent their 20s fucking around, getting drunk, being promiscuous, avoiding responsibility, etc etc. I just want to point out that one can be a responsible adult outside the context of establishing a traditional family. don't worry, Mary. If waiting around to get married is a sign of immaturity, I'm right up there. My friends and I were talking a lot about marriage the nights before my friend's wedding a few weeks ago and the concensus from everyone was that I would be the last to get married, and then they were taking bets as to if I would even tell anyone when I finally did get married or if I would elope in secert or "run away to Vegas" (as if, don't they know that's not my style!) I felt kind of shocked, they were talking about me as if I wouldn't get married for a long time because I'm really immature, not because of the obvious reasons like A. I don't have a boyfriend or B. I don't WANT to get married for a long time. I knew I was getting a little defensive, but i was surprised, the more they talked, to learn that my friends think I'm this flighty type who won't ever settle down or pick a mate...I know I have a lot of my life to get together, but I don't think that means that I'm some raving child, incapable of committment... AS for bands I've gotten into because of RSers...lessee. Just about everythign I've listened to or bought for the last 4 or 5 years, HELLO. I need someone from RS to endorse it or it's not coming home with me... Wilco -- Ken, Bon Ferdman X, Nick Cave -- Mary Neko Case, The Dirty Three -- Mary The Clash -- Ken, Mary The Smiths -- CWA, JLLM? Kate Bush -- Shane The Church -- Maarts? Scottsy? Interpol -- JLLM, Riley Sarah Harmer -- Dr. Drum ok, actually, I overestimated. skimming cds now, and there are a lot that I've discovered because of boyfriends (Modest Mouse, Radiohead ) or friends (Tool, Cat Power) or just happend upon (lotss stuff). But getting that mix from Mary sure did me a lot of good! |
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Post by RocDoc on Aug 25, 2004 17:32:53 GMT -5
...as to if I would even tell anyone when I finally did get married or if I would elope in secert or "run away to Vegas" (as if, don't they know that's not my style!)Oh? Like there something somehow declassè linked with 'running away to Vegas' to get married??  My wife and I did...dragged along one couple, another flew up from Oklahoma City and another of my classmates lives right there with her (now ex-)husband...had a friggin' BALL we did! So now watch how you mention Vegas in such 'disparaging' terms, eh Lumen? ~ ;D
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Post by lumencandle on Aug 25, 2004 17:50:10 GMT -5
Oh, no, no, no, my favorite doc! I know you were kidding, but I didn't mean to disparage going to Vegas to marry in the least. it's just not my style and I would expect my BEST freinds to know that. It was shocking...I do kind of think it would be fun, it's kind of an alluring thought to me for half a second. but I've always said I'd want to get married on the beach with my nearest and dearest present. Though I don't think I want to get married anytime soon, I know what kind of wedding I would want, and it's just not a Vegas one. And I only put it in quotes because that's exactly what my friend Ashley said. She's the one who seemd to equate me eloping altogether with some kind of immaturity...just goes to show you where I'm from... |
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Post by RocDoc on Aug 25, 2004 17:53:51 GMT -5
...of course we did a cathedral wedding in the the capital city of Vilnius 13 months later at her Mom's insistence...
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ueb
Struggling Artist
I'm strong as I'm mellow baby strong as I'm mellow I sure am happy for that --- Curve
Posts: 136
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Post by ueb on Aug 25, 2004 20:56:59 GMT -5
Oy vey... quite a bit happening since last night. A few random comments anway: Mary -- re: teaching Once again, I am teaching Freshman Composition but it's rather strange at USC. They have a prepared syllabus and set of lesson plans they expect everyone to follow but I got permission to tweak them anyway. It's just been really stressful trying to figure everything out on very short notice. Plus, I just don't feel comfortable teaching these kids yet. Maarten -- re: 27 yr olds and mobiles Punkchick -- re: being 19 and not having had a boyfriend yet I didn't have my first boyfriend until I was in my early 20s. In many ways, I always felt a little out of place with my female peers obsessed with boyfriends, yet I REALLY enjoyed being single. Then, when I did find someone, everything just feel into place. I feel fortunate that I don't have any regrets. So, enjoy your singleness; whatever will happen will happen when it's time. re: getting married (or not) I honestly see myself having a child with someone before I would actually get married. Granted, hopefully neither will happen any time soon. I suppose it comes with the experience of having divorced parents, and not wanting to experience any of that. I have always told myself that I would only agree to marry someone if I couldn't visualize sorting what possessions were mine and what were his at any point in the relationship. Nothing like that has happened yet. re: my situation with the boy Right now, I really don't want to go into too many details because they are rather fuzzy and I don't want to jinx anything. Theoretically, we could have the almost perfect relationship though. By being 90 miles away and only seeing each other every couple of weeks, I would have enough time for all my school stuff and he would have plenty of time to do all his biking (as in extreme trials biking not motorcycle biking). I think we just need to work on keep in contact somewhat regularly. I don't know...I'll keep you all posted though. Finally, some great opening tracks (that I don't think have been mentioned, and in no particular order): 1. Pretty Good Year - Tori Amos 2. Plainsong - The Cure 3. Angel - Massive Attack 4. Pure Morning - Placebo 5. Overcome - Tricky 6. True Happiness This Way Lies - The The 7. Bitter Sweet Symphony - The Verve 8. Valerie Loves Me - Material Issue 9. Thieves - Ministry 10. Do You Love Me? - Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds 11. Like a Prayer - Madonna 12. Possession - Sarah McLachlan 13. Untouchable Face - Ani DiFranco 14. Angelene - PJ Harvey |
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Post by Meursault on Aug 25, 2004 22:21:01 GMT -5
Great opening track...
Detroit Rock City - Kiss fr. Detroit Rock City
The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway - Genesis - frm TLLDOB
Debaser - Pixies fr. Doolittle
Running Up That Hill - Kate Bush fr. Hounds of Love
Ol '55 - Tom Waits fr. Closing Time
This is gay.
Good 5th song on Dummy = Wandering Star. Oh what a good groove, the lead singer chick whose name escapes me is so sexy.
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Post by PC on Aug 25, 2004 23:17:38 GMT -5
Great opening tracks:
Iggy & The Stooges - Search And Destroy
PJ Harvey - Rid Of Me
The Undertones - Family Entertainment
Sleater-Kinney - Dig Me Out
Bruce Springsteen - Badlands
The Replacements - I Will Dare
Jimmy Cliff - You Can Get It If You Really Want It
Violent Femmes - Blister In The Sun
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