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Post by Paul on Jan 13, 2006 11:38:30 GMT -5
I'm looking forward to it....I'm banking that it will be better than most of sir Paul's solo efforts....
You're spot on about Ray not being included w/ the great rock n' roll song writers....He easily IMO, hangs with and in some cases exceeds many considered the best. It's truly mind boggling how overlooked the Kinks are; their best work is right up there w/ the Beatles and Stones, without a doubt. IMO they are better than the Stones.
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Post by dolly on Jan 13, 2006 11:39:36 GMT -5
My visionary albums (many repeats here from what everyone else has written, no doubt):
Rolling Stones - Exile on Main Street (critically panned by many on release)
The Clash - London Calling (no surprise)
The Kinks - Face to Face
Television - Marquee Moon
Marvin Gaye - What's Goin' on
Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures
David Bowie - Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars
Bob Dylan - The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan (though Blood on the Tracks is my favourite Dylan album - but this is for 'visionary' - 'Blowin' in the wind')
Beach Boys - Pet Sounds (not what their American fans were expecting. But Brian had moved on from girls and surfing and had created one of the most beautifully spiritual albums ever recorded).
Radiohead - OK Computer
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Post by dolly on Jan 13, 2006 11:47:04 GMT -5
I'm looking forward to it....I'm banking that it will be better than most of sir Paul's solo efforts.... You're spot on about Ray not being included w/ the great rock n' roll song writers....He easily IMO, hangs with and in some cases exceeds many considered the best. It's truly mind boggling how overlooked the Kinks are; their best work is right up there w/ the Beatles and Stones, without a doubt. IMO they are better than the Stones. Yeah, I think the Kinks output on the whole is better than the Stones - but then the Stones have diluted their own legacy somewhat by refusing to give up a guaranteed cash-cow in touring, with a few half-hearted recordings thrown in for the sake of appearance. And I don't see too much of an improvement with Bigger Bang either, in spite of it's reviews. I'd certainly take the 60s Kinks over the 60s Stones any day of the year. However, Exile/Let it Bleed, and to a lesser extent Sticky Fingers - it's a close call. Gimmee Shelter is one of the best songs ever written, imo. But yeah - about the Kinks lack of recognition. They might get the odd mention as an influence to the Britpop generation, but that's all. And I really think that ought to change in Ray's lifetime. So...keep spreading the Kinks love Mr Cook  |
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Post by Paul on Jan 13, 2006 11:49:37 GMT -5
I like your list, but I'm a bit confused though by Exile....That's kind of a throwback album to American honky tonk/country/blues, no? To me, Between the Buttons would be more visionary....
Don't get me wrong, Exile is one of my favorite albums, I just don't think it's very ahead of it's time....
Nice call on Face to Face.
I forgot to mention OK Computer. I didn't know what the hell to make of it when I heard it back in 1998; which is when I realized right then it was visionary.
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Post by Paul on Jan 13, 2006 11:51:07 GMT -5
I'm looking forward to it....I'm banking that it will be better than most of sir Paul's solo efforts.... You're spot on about Ray not being included w/ the great rock n' roll song writers....He easily IMO, hangs with and in some cases exceeds many considered the best. It's truly mind boggling how overlooked the Kinks are; their best work is right up there w/ the Beatles and Stones, without a doubt. IMO they are better than the Stones. Yeah, I think the Kinks output on the whole is better than the Stones - but then the Stones have diluted their own legacy somewhat by refusing to give up a guaranteed cash-cow in touring, with a few half-hearted recordings thrown in for the sake of appearance. And I don't see too much of an improvement with Bigger Bang either, in spite of it's reviews. I'd certainly take the 60s Kinks over the 60s Stones any day of the year. However, Exile/Let it Bleed, and to a lesser extent Sticky Fingers - it's a close call. Gimmee Shelter is one of the best songs ever written, imo. But yeah - about the Kinks lack of recognition. They might get the odd mention as an influence to the Britpop generation, but that's all. And I really think that ought to change in Ray's lifetime. So...keep spreading the Kinks love Mr Cook Will do, thanks But it's also shocking how so many people simply don't want to even give them a chance. You'd be surprised how many people have shunned me away when trying to spread some Kinks love; it's much more of an uphill battle than I thought it would be.... |
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Post by dolly on Jan 13, 2006 11:51:48 GMT -5
Just spotted that Ray Davies is playing the Shepherds Bush the first day of half term - sorely tempted to book tickets for me and my sister. We saw him 2-3 years ago and he was amazing - not just in performance of his and the Kinks songs - but his witty onstage persona. He can never resist being the storyteller...
If you get the chance - see him - you won't be disappointed.
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Post by Paul on Jan 13, 2006 11:56:11 GMT -5
If he ever makes his way to the District of Columbia or it's surrounding areas, I'm there. I wonder how brother Dave is getting along? Last I read, Ray was teaching him how to play guitar again, and in typical Ray fashion said something like "once he learns how to play, I'm going back to hating him."
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Post by dolly on Jan 13, 2006 12:07:56 GMT -5
I like your list, but I'm a bit confused though by Exile....That's kind of a throwback album to American honky tonk/country/blues, no? To me, Between the Buttons would be more visionary.... Nice call on Face to Face. I forgot to mention OK Computer. I didn't know what the hell to make of it when I heard it back in 1998; which is when I realized right then it was visionary. I see your point on Exile... I think it's really difficult to choose any Stones album as visionary to be honest as they were so heavily influenced by other bands (Beatles with Satanic Majesties) and the old Bluegrass musicians they had spent their first few albums covering. But Exile, I think you can now look upon it as visionary - a) because it was out of tune with the time and the result of them coming through the drug-fuelled Jones years to emerge a dirtier, sleazier, but more mature band determined to make a masterpiece that was distinctly dirty, disturbing Stones. And they did it to confusuion and bad reviews in Exile. It wasn't until later it was revered as a masterpiece - and some even say now that it was the original grunge album with its obscured lyrics and muddy recording. So yeah, I think it's fair to call it visionary - even if the style of many of the songs harks back to Bo Didley and the rest of em. |
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Post by dolly on Jan 13, 2006 12:10:26 GMT -5
If he ever makes his way to the District of Columbia or it's surrounding areas, I'm there. I wonder how brother Dave is getting along? Last I read, Ray was teaching him how to play guitar again, and in typical Ray fashion said something like "once he learns how to play, I'm going back to hating him." Really? That's a lovely story if it's true. I've always found it extremely sad the way those two hated it each other - though I think it was inspirational for their creativity too. Haven't heard anything of Dave, but last time I saw him on one of those musical documentaries he looked great - like he has discovered eternal youth or something. That was a few years ago now though.... |
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Post by Paul on Jan 13, 2006 12:14:40 GMT -5
He had a stroke about a year or two ago....I've read he's been painting, and as noted earlier, Ray is teaching him to play guitar again.... Here is a recent Dave painting after the stroke....  |
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Post by Paul on Jan 13, 2006 12:16:09 GMT -5
I like your list, but I'm a bit confused though by Exile....That's kind of a throwback album to American honky tonk/country/blues, no? To me, Between the Buttons would be more visionary.... Nice call on Face to Face. I forgot to mention OK Computer. I didn't know what the hell to make of it when I heard it back in 1998; which is when I realized right then it was visionary. I see your point on Exile... I think it's really difficult to choose any Stones album as visionary to be honest as they were so heavily influenced by other bands (Beatles with Satanic Majesties) and the old Bluegrass musicians they had spent their first few albums covering. But Exile, I think you can now look upon it as visionary - a) because it was out of tune with the time and the result of them coming through the drug-fuelled Jones years to emerge a dirtier, sleazier, but more mature band determined to make a masterpiece that was distinctly dirty, disturbing Stones. And they did it to confusuion and bad reviews in Exile. It wasn't until later it was revered as a masterpiece - and some even say now that it was the original grunge album with its obscured lyrics and muddy recording. So yeah, I think it's fair to call it visionary - even if the style of many of the songs harks back to Bo Didley and the rest of em. I never thought of it like that....makes sense though. Original grunge album, eh?....I like that. |
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Post by dolly on Jan 13, 2006 12:18:40 GMT -5
I thought I was stretching it with the Grunge thing, but I like to put up a fight before I'll admit I might be wrong. Typical woman eh? Whoah - Dave's mind is messed up. Let's hope he picks up speed with that guitar-playing! |
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Post by dolly on Jan 13, 2006 12:25:23 GMT -5
Will do, thanks But it's also shocking how so many people simply don't want to even give them a chance. You'd be surprised how many people have shunned me away when trying to spread some Kinks love; it's much more of an uphill battle than I thought it would be.... I missed this somehow. Yeah mention the Kinks on American (or British for that matter) message boards and it's a surefire threadkiller. I fear Ray and co will always be outsiders until one of them dies and they're suddenly re-evaluated and pushed by whichever record company holds the rights to their back catalogue in order to cash in. Still, I'm not sure Ray would be happy being widely idolised. He's far too much the misanthropic cynic for that. |
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Post by Paul on Jan 13, 2006 12:34:45 GMT -5
Will do, thanks But it's also shocking how so many people simply don't want to even give them a chance. You'd be surprised how many people have shunned me away when trying to spread some Kinks love; it's much more of an uphill battle than I thought it would be.... I missed this somehow. Yeah mention the Kinks on American (or British for that matter) message boards and it's a surefire threadkiller. I fear Ray and co will always be outsiders until one of them dies and they're suddenly re-evaluated and pushed by whichever record company holds the rights to their back catalogue in order to cash in. Still, I'm not sure Ray would be happy being widely idolised. He's far too much the misanthropic cynic for that. Misanthropic cynic, nice way to describe him.... Have you ever listened to Muswell Hillbillies? [Another agrument against Exile is that Muswell came out a year before and was kinda dirty/pub rock mixed w/ lots of blues and American Jazz/ragtime.] ...anyway, there is a song on it called "Acute Schizophrenia Paranoia Blues"; it's a good way to sum up Ray.... |
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Post by dolly on Jan 13, 2006 12:49:39 GMT -5
Muswell Hillbillies....
You are quite right - also not particularly well-received I believe. You have a very good point. Maybe I was right the first time by saying the Stones were followers rather than visionaries. They just did it bigger, sleazier and with more glamour than everyone else...
Also out of character for Davies the observationist voyeur. I wish I had a copy, not listened to that since I had access to my folks vinyl collection. Y'know Kinks CDs are ridiculously difficult to find in the shops, in comparison to Beatles, Stones - even the Small Faces.
Mgiht have to hit soulseek.
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