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Post by Kensterberg on Feb 21, 2007 17:38:00 GMT -5
It's common knowledge here that I'm insane ... INSANE! That's why I'm the CE moderator. Maarts is there to be a calming, stabilizing influence on my insanity.
I like you guys too much to really pick apart the Kinks today. I'll just say that Weller is that rare rocker who has actually improved with age -- his writing is as sharp as ever and his voice is arguably the best it's ever been now -- whereas Davies fits the classic "early peak, sharp valley, comeback, fade away" model of almost every other rocker of his generation. Weller has also worked more consistently than Davies over his career. The gap between the final (deservedly) overlooked Style Council album and his solo debut was the biggest break in his career, and that was only something like three years. He has steadily put out remarkably good (if totally ignored in the US) albums for a full three decades now -- something which none of the pretenders to this particular crown can claim.
The Modfather rocks.
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Post by dolly on Feb 21, 2007 17:42:39 GMT -5
I'll bet you posted that before you saw my inferiority complex post, Ken  Weller has also worked more consistently than Davies over his career.I'll file this under 'to be investigated'. Night all. |
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Post by Kensterberg on Feb 21, 2007 17:45:20 GMT -5
G'night, Dolly. Give Jesus a kiss for all us here.  |
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Post by Paul on Feb 21, 2007 17:46:20 GMT -5
Weller has stronger melodic sense than either of the other two, BTW Damn, I was hoping to hide behind Paul on this one, but he's gone eerily silent! I wish I was more familiar with Style Council and solo Weller (aside from a brief infatuation with Stanley Road) to be able to wholeheartedly refute this. Certainly based on Jam evidence, I would. All I can do is point to the gorgeousnous of some of Ray's melodies and say... 'ARE YOU CERTIFIABLY INSANE HOLZ? ? ? ?! ??' Waterloo Sunset, Autumn Almanac, Picture Book, Dead End Street, Where have all the good times gone.... to name but a few. I missed that....Weller more melodic than Ray??? No Fucking Way Holzman! "Picture Book" "Village Green" "Victoria", "Mr. Pleasant", "20th Century Man", "Little Miss Queen Of Darkness" -- and I'm just scratching the tip of the iceberg here...Ray had a sense of melody that was only rivaled by John and Paul. |
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Post by loudaab on Feb 21, 2007 18:49:32 GMT -5
Ken, how do you determine how melodic someone is?
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Post by RocDoc on Feb 21, 2007 19:11:50 GMT -5
Don't answer that question, Ken!
Your insanity defense is airtight.
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Post by Paul on Feb 22, 2007 9:42:38 GMT -5
Since Ken is insane, and well, and evil lawyer I guess I'll let him slide on the Kinks comments....his mind has been clouded...Don't worry Ken, Dolly and I are here to help guide you back to salvation.  |
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Post by Paul on Feb 22, 2007 9:46:48 GMT -5
Ken, how do you determine how melodic someone is? per wikipedia.... "Melody IS said to result where there are interacting patterns of changing events occurring in time."[1] Change is necessary for events "to be understood as related or unrelated." Melodies often consist of one or more musical phrases, motifs, and are usually repeated throughout a song or piece in various forms. Melodies may also be described by their melodic motion or the pitches or the intervals between pitches (predominantly conjuct or disjunct or with further restrictions), pitch range, tension and release, continuity and coherence, cadence, and shape. "Many extant explanations [of melody] confine us [sic] to specific stylistic models, and they are too exclusive."[1] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melody--- Picture Book to me is a very melodic song....it's kinda simple, but there's a lot happening and a lot of subtle pitch changes and whatnot. I'm no expert on melody, but I'm slowly learning about it. It's hard enough learning a few chords here and there and scales, much less actually structuring a melodic pattern. |
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Post by loudaab on Feb 22, 2007 10:44:37 GMT -5
Paul what does being an 'expert on melody' mean--and who do you see as being an expert on melody? Also does being an expert on it equate to being a genius at it? Or can you know absolutley nothing about melody, but still create beautiful ones naturally?
And a last question is, when you listen to a melody can you tell whether it was done by an expert on melody or not?
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Post by skvorisdeadsorta on Feb 22, 2007 10:47:48 GMT -5
Don't you have a blog to update?
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Post by Fuzznuts on Feb 22, 2007 10:57:41 GMT -5
Paul what does being an 'expert on melody' mean--and who do you see as being an expert on melody? Also does being an expert on it equate to being a genius at it? Or can you know absolutley nothing about melody, but still create beautiful ones naturally? And a last question is, when you listen to a melody can you tell whether it was done by an expert on melody or not? Yeah, the same way you're an expert on music, yet know absolutely nothing about it. |
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Post by dolly on Feb 22, 2007 11:48:12 GMT -5
Yeah, the same way you're an expert on music, yet know absolutely nothing about it.
I'm choosing the ignore tactic, Fuzz. He only came here to try again to pick a fight with Holzman again. Sad, really really sad.
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Post by dolly on Feb 22, 2007 11:51:36 GMT -5
"Davies fits the classic "early peak, sharp valley, comeback, fade away" model of almost every other rocker of his generation. "
I would concede you had a point, Ken, but for the fact that Ray has never really faded away. Sure, he doesn't enjoy the stature he had with the Kinks, but then neither does Weller without the Jam.
Ray is still around - he realised a jolly niceset of tunes last year and was touring his little socks off until he wore himself out, poor lamb.
Ray will never go away. Adapting an old Nick Cave quote: After the Apocalypse, there will be cockroaches, and there will be Ray Davies.
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Post by Kensterberg on Feb 22, 2007 11:53:50 GMT -5
Yeah, the same way you're an expert on music, yet know absolutely nothing about it. I'm choosing the ignore tactic, Fuzz. He only came here to try again to pick a fight with Holzman again. Sad, really really sad. I've become a board pacifist -- no flame wars for me. Intelligent discussions, sure, but flaming, etc.? Nope, none for me thanks. |
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Post by Kensterberg on Feb 22, 2007 11:58:05 GMT -5
"Davies fits the classic "early peak, sharp valley, comeback, fade away" model of almost every other rocker of his generation. "I would concede you had a point, Ken, but for the fact that Ray has never really faded away. Sure, he doesn't enjoy the stature he had with the Kinks, but then neither does Weller without the Jam. Ray is still around - he realised a jolly niceset of tunes last year and was touring his little socks off until he wore himself out, poor lamb. Ray will never go away. Adapting an old Nick Cave quote: After the Apocalypse, there will be cockroaches, and there will be Ray Davies. LOL! But wasn't this last album Ray's first solo effort, ever? He basically took all of the nineties off, and this last record was a nice (though by no means perfect) comeback. Ray was married to Chrissie Hynde, though, and that wins him tons of coolness points with me. I actually do like Ray Davies and the Kinks, I just don't love 'em the way you and Paul do. But I've still got all the songs that Paul sent me ripped onto my hard drive/iPod, and there are some that I love tons ("Well Respected Man," "Dead End Street," etc.). It's just that damn music-hall/showtunes influence that takes so many Kinks albums over the top that wears on me. |
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