JACkory
Struggling Artist
Posts: 167
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Post by JACkory on Nov 17, 2007 18:28:26 GMT -5
...or you could download some beastiality porn from the internet...that's about all it's good for.
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Post by chrisfan on Nov 17, 2007 20:39:05 GMT -5
That's all fine and good, but until you provide me with anything from the bible that even IMPLIES that human beings are born perfect or are at any point in their lives perfect well then all this rigamarole about varying interpretations is just a pile of shit. i don't think you can do it. i'd even go so far as to say I KNOW youi can't do it. but don't do it for me. i'm not interested and I've read and studied the bible enough to know better. do it for yourself, so you can correct this erroneous belief you harbor about human perfection. maybe set aside the hour you spend watching "big brother", "lost" or "kid nation" and use the time to embark uon a systematic study of the bible. that should do the trick. I absolutely can do it Jac. But there's not a single thing about hte current state of mind you've been displaying around here that implies to me that it would be worth the time to do so. |
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Post by upinkzeppelin2 on Nov 17, 2007 20:45:19 GMT -5
It's important enough to know for yourself Chrisfan, whether or not JAC takes notice of it.
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Post by chrisfan on Nov 18, 2007 7:49:46 GMT -5
I do know for myself Melon. Thanks for the concern
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JACkory
Struggling Artist
Posts: 167
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Post by JACkory on Nov 18, 2007 9:58:57 GMT -5
You're right that it wouldn't be worth your time to do it in any attempt to prove to me that you're right. But you put a lot of stock in your religion. Which is all fine and good, but like I said, you should do it for YOURSELF so that you can correct ths erroneous misconception of perfection that you are living with. You don't have to report back to me with your results. It's enough for me to know that I've played even a small psrt in dispelling personal preference disguised as (or mistaken for) doctrine and shined the light of truth into the dark recesses of theological misunderstanding,
As for my "state of mind"...WHOOPEE! I like this one. It's so far the most enjoyable "state of mind" that I've chosen from the menu, and I've tried a lot of 'em. I think I'll hang on to this one for a long while.
Enlighten yourself for yourself.
Amuse me because I'm easilly amused.
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JACkory
Struggling Artist
Posts: 167
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Post by JACkory on Nov 18, 2007 10:07:39 GMT -5
And don't mistake your unwillingness to discuss the topic with someone who obviously does not give a damn with the inability to produce even one bible verse that backs up your deluded notion that anyone who has ever lived, is now living or will ever live is in any way, shape or form "perfect".
If I DID give a damn, I could and would provide more than a few that refute your stance, But since I don't, I suggest yoiu talk to your pastor about it. If he/she has attended seminary long enough to justify all the student loans, he/she will save me a whole lot of trouble.
It simply cannot be done without stretching the boundaries of interpretation to the breaking point. And even at the point where they snap you're still left without a shred of scriptural authority to back up your claim.
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Post by Matheus on Nov 18, 2007 13:00:48 GMT -5
JAC, if you don't mind me asking, are you into Calvin?
A simple yes or no would suffice. For some reason, I remember you saying that you are, but my memory could be mistaken.
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Post by phil on Nov 18, 2007 13:48:30 GMT -5
 Can't speak for Jac but I am into Calvin ... BIG TIME !! BTW ,,, Even God is not perfect ! If she was, we wouldn't be in the mess we are right now ... |
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Post by Matheus on Nov 18, 2007 13:49:45 GMT -5
LMFAO.
that was amazing!
Thanks, phil!
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JACkory
Struggling Artist
Posts: 167
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Post by JACkory on Nov 18, 2007 16:21:50 GMT -5
JAC, if you don't mind me asking, are you into Calvin? A simple yes or no would suffice. For some reason, I remember you saying that you are, but my memory could be mistaken. i can't give youi a simple yes or no. there are some aspects of calvin's theology that i think are biblically sound (predestination) but others that i have a hard time with (election and reprobation, which i do believe in up to a point, not nearly as far as calvin went with it). i don't think there's anything whatsoever in the bible that contradicts the doctrine of predestination, and when you really sit down and meditate upon what it means for god to be omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient, well, i don't see how you can come to any other conclusion...which, i suppose, also gives creedence to election and reprobation...i just think that calvin' club for christians was too exclusive. armenian theology doesn't make sense, as far as I'm concerned, but hey, human beings do like to pretend they have total control over their destinies...let 'em keep on believing it...it's not hurting anyone. even more sound than the teachings of john calvin, I believe, are the collected essays of Jedd Clampett. There's more wisdom in those pages than you can shake a stick at. |
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Post by Matheus on Nov 19, 2007 15:07:10 GMT -5
JAC, thanks for the answer.
I have some questions, but I'm going to let it be since there is really no point in debating this sort of topic and I know you don't care for such discussions.
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Post by Thorngrub on Nov 21, 2007 11:01:26 GMT -5
I'm going to keep this simple.
In my opinion, religious zeal which forsakes the inherent humanity of the teachings of jesus - have lost all accountability for themselves.
This type of ignorance, in my opinion, has thrown the baby out with the bathwater. By lending such overt divinity to the Christ figure, this type of "Faith" strips itself of its essential humanity. Humans should be responsible for themselves, and I believe this was, in fact, Christ's message.
His message was to "love your neighbor", and "forgive thine enemies".
His message was to not steal, not covet that which belongs to your neighbor,
and to not worhip false gods.
These lovely double-edged truths have cut deeply since then. In fact, they have almost succeeded in completely severing Christ's head clean off, the way I see it.
Those today whose zeal for the crucifixion as symbolic of their salvation - - in my humble opinion, are missing the entire point of what the original spiritual teachings were intended to be. It is often quite troubling to me.
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JACkory
Struggling Artist
Posts: 167
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Post by JACkory on Nov 21, 2007 17:36:28 GMT -5
Actually folks don't cling to the crucifiction of Christ as symbolic of their salvation. It's the resurrection that seals the deal. The divinity of Christ is essential to the whole she-bang. Their were, have and always will be those who speak truth and teach legitimate spiritual values. All that is fiine and good, but Christ was about much more than showing people how to live responsible lives. His whole purpose on this planet was the reconciliation of god's creation to the creator.
No doubt there are many, many people who miss the point of his teachings...but in the long run, and this may surprise you, the teachings are secondary to the embracing of his divinity. his teachings can only be accepted to the point where the individual is mentally able to accept them. Faith, however, is something that can be nurtured within the heart of every human being.
I'm not sure that i believe that christianity is the only way for people to become one with the Supersoul...and before anyone rips me on that, i'm not claiming that as a biblical teaching...i have come to the point where I think god is too big to be contained between the pages of one book. and i think he reveals himself to different people and to different cultures through various religions as well as through no religion at all. I am very interested in Hinduism anf Buddhism, but my faith is in Jesus and the way I see it, the grace I stand in gives me freedom to implement the teachings I find in other religions, the ones that resonant within me and enable me to understand myself and the life I live better.
furthermore, Mr. Rogers, of Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood, was a model Christian, so I can think of no better reason to drop everything and get converted.
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Post by Matheus on Dec 3, 2007 0:01:22 GMT -5
When'd you come to this conclusion?
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Post by chrisfan on Dec 18, 2007 11:43:28 GMT -5
I don't know if anyone will answer this or not, but I'm curious, so I'm posting it.
Last night I was having a conversation with my parents regarding church members filling out pledge cards. At their church, they noticed a huge difference this year between the people at the traditional service (generally older crowd) who filled them out in droves, and the people at the contemporary service (generally younger crowd) who did not fill them out at all. My parents see this as a big problem because 1) they come from a generation where participating in the annual church pledge campaign was a given and 2) they've both served in leadership roles where they've seen the importance of having that commitment so a budget can be built.
I told them that I believe that in the world today, especially with peole in the 15 - 40 age range, there is a great deal of cynicism regarding churches and money. I suggested that some of this may stem from the ages we were in forming impressions on people when the Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggart scandals happened - that a few bad apples spoiled the bunch. But it's hard for me to say this for sure, since I'm not one who holds a great deal of cynicism regarding money and the church.
So, if anyone is inclined to answer ... if you feel such cynicism, do you have any thoughts on where it may stem from?
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