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Post by Paul on Dec 14, 2005 10:46:33 GMT -5
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away....
OK folks, I figured the nerds need to strike back and this board was in need of it's very own Star Wars thread.
Discuss everything here...Your love (or hate) for everything Star Wars -- Books, movies, video games, cartoons, underoos (you know you had them, maybe still do).
Did Lucas tarnish the legacy of Star Wars w/ the Special Editions (SE), and Prequel movies?
Was Episode 3 a big let down, the final nail in the coffin, or the perfect way to tie up the two trilogies?
Who used to dream about Carrie Fisher?
What the hell is a Nerf Herder?
Alright, you get the idea discuss away....
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Post by Adam on Dec 15, 2005 11:37:00 GMT -5
What a great idea. I haven't any time right now to really start some conversation but I just know I'll be fucking crazy on this thread.
Right now, I'll just answer your questions:
Did Lucas tarnish the legacy of Star Wars w/ the Special Editions (SE), and Prequel movies?
I think he's made it richer but some of his ability to keep a consistently compelling narrative is faulty (especially in the first 2 installments). His changes on the SEs don't bother me as much as they did 8-9 years ago (when they first came out) but, let's get real, not all that stuff was necessary.
And Han will always shoot first.
At least he cleaned up the films considerably.
Was Episode 3 a big let down, the final nail in the coffin, or the perfect way to tie up the two trilogies?
I love Episode 3 and I've revisited it more than I have the other prequels in the 3 weeks I've owned it. It still remains the only one I can sit through and smile. It has its faults acting-wise (mostly in a couple, brief Padme/Anakin scenes) but the writing's sharper, the acting's better, and for the first time since ROTJ, there's a sense of purpose and urgency to the plot. It tied the two trilogies well, methinks.
Who used to dream about Carrie Fisher?
I didn't but she was fetching in those movies.
What the hell is a Nerf Herder?
Probably the same thing as "laser brain."
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Post by luke on Dec 15, 2005 11:41:46 GMT -5
I know the intent wasn't to be a "poll", but here goes anyway.
Did Lucas tarnish the legacy of Star Wars w/ the Special Editions (SE), and Prequel movies?
I still hate the SEs, and only watch the films on VHS. I'm a bitter old man. One and a half of the prequels sucked, but it got better from there. The third one was good.
Was Episode 3 a big let down, the final nail in the coffin, or the perfect way to tie up the two trilogies?
The only way, I think.
Who used to dream about Carrie Fisher?
I still get hot for her when I watch.
What the hell is a Nerf Herder?
A shitty pop punk band. Think they might be Canadian.
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Post by Paul on Dec 15, 2005 16:06:54 GMT -5
I don't mind the SE's as much now as I did in 1997. The way I see it, if Lucas "touches them up" to flow better w/ the new movies then so be it. I just wish we had the choice, as paying customers who've made Lucas a billionaire, that he would also release the untouched original films. Personally I'd like to have both.
I was really disappointed w/ almost everything about the prequels. EP1 was a complete waste, and a missed opportunity. It really should have ended w/ the Clone Wars starting IMO. I hate to sound like a bitchy fan boy, but I guess that's what I am...IMO Ep1 would have been better had Lucas attempted to give us more background to the Jedi vs. Sith rivalry, focused more on Darth Maul and Sidious' grand plot, and focused on Obi-wan and Anakin's relationship. To me everything just seemed thrown together, and really disjointed w/ all three movies.
EP3 was a lot better, but Lucas was forced to cram so much in b/c he forgot, or was just plain lazy to include clutch scenes in EP 1 & 2. I think had EP2 been more like the Clone Wars cartoons it would have been a much better film. Showing Anakin and Obi-wan side by side fighting on remote planets and really building their relationship would have made Ep 3 all the more powerful. For me, I never really felt connected to the characters. It's sad that we need a cartoon, that's better than the movies, to do what the movies should have done. Of course this is all just the opinion of a disgruntled fan.
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Post by Kensterberg on Dec 15, 2005 16:48:20 GMT -5
I love the SEs. I cannot describe the thrill I got when I saw Star Wars SE in what was effectively a seventies vintage theater in Omaha. It was like I was 12 again. Empire SE really cleans up the effects on Hoth (green screening on a white backdrop is incredibly difficult to pull off, and I was always put off by how fake the ton-tons looked originally), and generally just made a great film a bit better. The SE of Jedi, however, completely transformed that movie. Not only were the effects much improved, but the new editing of the final celebratory sequence made it into an appropriate way to wrap up the saga. I always hated that damn ewok song (not ewoks, per se, but that damn song!). As for the prequels ... I was blown away when I first saw Ep. I (midnight, opening day, the drum roll sounds and the crowd begins to rumble, "a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away ..." comes on the screen and it's a full roar). I didn't love Jar-Jar, but I understand his role (and think that Lucas' diminishing use of him throughout the first three films makes a nice metaphor for the growth of the Dark Side within Anakin and throughout the Republic). And the lightsaber fights in this film were simply stunning ... and still are. The final fight between Maul, Qui-Gon, and Obi-Wan is perhaps the best of the entire series (with Vader and Kenobi in Ep. III a close second, or maybe first). The effects are stunning, I had no problem following the plot, and if it is the lightest movie of the series, that's only fitting as its primary purpose is to show us this wonderful little boy who "contains only good." Watching Ep. I now, I can't help but be moved when that cute little kid says to Qui-Gon, "no one can kill a Jedi" and the aging master replies, "If only that were so." I mean, the forshadowing there is huge, but you don't hear any of the Ep. I critics acknowledge that. Watch young Anakin thinking "this kid is going to grow up to be Darth Vader and betray and murder hundreds of his comrades in arms," knowing that he will later sacrifice his entire order in order to try to look after his own selfish interests. Episode III is amazing. Quite frankly, it's the best SW movie that Lucas directed (even better than the original, which will always simply be "Star Wars" in my heart). This was the way Revenge of the Sith needed to be, and whatever complaints a person may have about Ep's I and II, III redeems them, IMO. It is perhaps the most moving film in the saga. I had the good fortune to watch it once with a girl who really didn't know what was going to happen in this movie. She somehow had never understood that Anakin Skywalker was on his way to becoming Darth Vader (really pretty girl, a sometime model, actually, but not the sharpest tool in the shed). When Anakin sides with Sidious against Mace Windu, she gasped, and when Sidious pronounces his new apprentice shall be known as "Darth Vader" she literally screamed out "NO!" I've always wondered how this would play for someone who wasn't familiar with the whole story, and this confirmed that if you don't know where the saga is headed, then Anakin's turn to the Dark Side is indeed powerful. The young Carrie Fisher wasn't a "perfect" beauty, but who didn't love her? It didn't hurt that I was 12 when Star Wars was released, and as Lucas noted "there are no bras in space."  Riley's got the Nerf Herder deal, I think. Though they did do the theme to Buffy the Vampire Slayer, if memory serves. Oh yeah, I still own the final VHS deluxe release of the original movies. Wide screen, big-ass box that doesn't store anywhere conveniently, a signpost for the end of an era. I do wish that George would go ahead and give us a definitive DVD edition that would include a nice transfer of the original prints, however. I don't know if I'd watch 'em often, but it would be nice to have as a souvenier of my youth. Though maybe those first films, in their original cuts, SHOULD remain on the media of their time. |
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Post by Adam on Dec 15, 2005 23:07:04 GMT -5
I've got bootleg DVDs of the original trilogy (actually ports of the Definitive Edition laserdiscs). I had to pay a friend $10 for them but they were worth it. I was so sick of trying to find an affordable copy of that Deluxe Edition (which I think Ken's talking about) on eBay.
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Post by Kensterberg on Dec 15, 2005 23:21:39 GMT -5
Yeah, that Deluxe Edition is what I've got. It's not for sale, though.  |
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Post by Adam on Dec 16, 2005 0:25:43 GMT -5
Do they still play well? I bet those tapes have to be about a decade old, I bet.
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Post by Kensterberg on Dec 16, 2005 0:57:36 GMT -5
You know, I haven't watched those tapes in years ... played fine the last time I pulled 'em out, but who knows now.
I've generally had pretty good luck with VHS tapes maintaining their integrity, and these just stay in a drawer, far from any electromagnetic fields. It would be nice to have 'em on DVD though. Maybe some day Lucas will go ahead and put out a "Classic" edition of the first three movies.
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Post by maarts on Dec 16, 2005 6:48:36 GMT -5
Shit, I have that Deluxe Edition too- wasn't aware that it still fetches a bit of dough these days! Those cards and prints are still fab! As much as I love to drown in Star Wars and its fabled making... The Special Edition wasn't necessary but I don't mind it. For the sake of better explosions, fine. I found more disagreement in retelling the story of Darth Vader's coming after the first three episodes. How convenient that A New Hope did start as number 4 in the cycle. But I don't like to know the end of a film/book in advance so I admit it took a bit of the fun away. And what's with 'A long time ago...'  If that was supposed to be the past, the future looks even more bright! |
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Post by Weeping_Guitar on Dec 16, 2005 8:11:36 GMT -5
I don't mind the SE's as much now as I did in 1997. The way I see it, if Lucas "touches them up" to flow better w/ the new movies then so be it. I just wish we had the choice, as paying customers who've made Lucas a billionaire, that he would also release the untouched original films. Personally I'd like to have both. I was really disappointed w/ almost everything about the prequels. EP1 was a complete waste, and a missed opportunity. It really should have ended w/ the Clone Wars starting IMO. I hate to sound like a bitchy fan boy, but I guess that's what I am...IMO Ep1 would have been better had Lucas attempted to give us more background to the Jedi vs. Sith rivalry, focused more on Darth Maul and Sidious' grand plot, and focused on Obi-wan and Anakin's relationship. To me everything just seemed thrown together, and really disjointed w/ all three movies. EP3 was a lot better, but Lucas was forced to cram so much in b/c he forgot, or was just plain lazy to include clutch scenes in EP 1 & 2. I think had EP2 been more like the Clone Wars cartoons it would have been a much better film. Showing Anakin and Obi-wan side by side fighting on remote planets and really building their relationship would have made Ep 3 all the more powerful. For me, I never really felt connected to the characters. It's sad that we need a cartoon, that's better than the movies, to do what the movies should have done. Of course this is all just the opinion of a disgruntled fan. In the past I've drawn up some, in my mind, pretty good outlines of how Lucas could have rearranged his own ideas and made the films much more individually important. As much as people would have pointed out it was repetitve of the original trilogy, the 3 main players (Kenobi, Anakin, Padme) should have had an adventure to themselves in the first film and then you've set up their bond for the rest of the series. The series was really set back when most of the first film could have been tackled in an opening scrawl. Episode 3 is great at generating some kind of real brotherhood between Obi-Wan and Anakin, but it could have been great had Episode 2 been their continiung perilous adventures. Then towards the end they break apart and maybe at the end Anakin is left to make the choice or does right before the end. Easy to second guess, but there are plenty of great ideas to work from in those films. They really just called for somebody like Lawrence Kasdan to come in at the start and help George lay it out and write the scripts b/c he had too much on his plate even without that duty. That or a producer who was more than just a yes man and made George lessen his duties. |
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Post by Adam on Dec 16, 2005 11:09:40 GMT -5
If Kasdan didn't want to do it (if asked) they should've asked Joss Whedon.
Just watch Serenity and tell me that's not the Star Wars film everyone really wanted to see.
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Post by Paul on Dec 16, 2005 11:19:26 GMT -5
I've heard some good things about Serenity, but have yet to see it....I figured I was already geeky enough w/ Star Wars, so I try to keep my Sci-Fi to a minimum outside of SW. The previews never really sold me; so is it well worth a veiwing?
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Post by Kensterberg on Dec 16, 2005 11:33:48 GMT -5
I didn't have time to watch Firefly as a series, but I'm a long-time fan of Joss Whedon. However, time constraints also kept me from catching Serenity in theaters. It's on my DVDs to watch list, however.
Everything I've heard about it makes it sounds like an excellent movie. Joss is an amazing writer, with a real gift for putting real characters in fantastic settings. Once I've seen it, I'll be sure to post my thoughts here.
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Post by Adam on Dec 16, 2005 16:56:47 GMT -5
Oh, Serenity was one of the summer's finest surprises. Even if you haven't seen or known anything about Firefly, the movie fills you in within the first 15 minutes while simultaneously marching foward on its own plot (must have been a bitch to write those first 15).
But I make the comparison with Serenity and SW because Whedon loved Star Wars but more to the point: He loved the character of Han Solo. Both the movie and the series captured the hilarious, laconic, cynical attitude of Solo (not just embodied perfectly within the lead played by Nathan Fillion but with his crew).
But, before I get carried away, I highly recommend you check it out when its released next Tuesday. Rent it or buy it, you'll be entertained.
Speaking of Whedon, he did an interview for an online mag this summer in which the interviewer got him to talk about SW and he stated some changes he'd would've liked to make to Return of the Jedi. Some are really good ideas, others are hilarious:
"Well, first of all, I believe that my actual answer was the movie that I would have liked to have made was actually “Revenge of the Jedi.” Because that’s what it was originally called.
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The Millennium Falcon would not be piloted in the climactic scene by Lando Calrissian and a frog. It would have been Han, getting it done. The “other” to whom Yoda referred would of course have been a young, female, badass Jedi, because where else would I go with that? It would have not been revealed in the first five minutes that Darth Vader was going to be redeemed. And, yeah, there would have been a little less incest.
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Yes, I would have made it a little harder on everybody. Oh, and I would have had some extra lyrics for the Yub Yub song. And I think his father would have been James Earl Jones [who provided Vader’s voice], or at least Dave Prowse [who filled Vader’s armor].
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In the trailer, it looked like Luke was going to go all bad. And I definitely would have explored that territory. It looked like his dad was going to win him over. He looked like he was allied with the Dark Side a little bit. And I realize that, now, again, after this latest “Revenge,” that’s old news. But at the time it was riveting and they didn’t play that out at all. That would have been a big deal."
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If that was supposed to be the past, the future looks even more bright!