Skvor's House of Metal

[Nepenthe]

The point was that there's always been a "metal uniform". The only difference between now and 1986 is the fit of the jeans. Style in general has moved quite far from 1986, however.

I guess you really can't grasp Overkill's Old School off RELIXIV can you? Thats ok I know sometimes these concepts are hard for people to grasp. I was there, I know what people wore to concert during the 80's. Class of 84 here.

I don't know what legitimate metal shows people were wearing "parachute pants" to ever. Maybe to Korn, not to Emperor and Morbid Angel. Nor have I ever seen someone wear a polo shirt to a death metal or grindcore show. Maybe a hardcore show (different crowd altogether) but not a metal show.

You mention Korn here but I was talking about the 80's. You never did answer my question, how old are you? Again, I was there.

Maiden is the modern day Kiss, so I certainly wouldn't suggest buying pewter figurines or reissues of the same records that are remastered and reissued every 6 months. I buy the bands record, I buy a ticket to the show, and I buy beers at the show. They get a cut of all of it. They don't need me to buy a shirt.

And this has got to be the topper foaming out from you yet. Only the most influential and most covered band in the history of metal. No heavy metal artist or real self respecting metal fan would come of with such tripe. Oh and get a clue, they carry on because they can. Period. And do draw incredible crowds both young and old. The most incredible fan base I have ever seen. Ever been to their message boards?

I certainly don't feel intimidated, having a superiority complex most of the time (especially at metal shows, heh). I do enjoy messing with the screwed us sensibilities of the metal kids though, and it brings me great pleasure.

Well with this maturity level, I am rather doubtful of your claims.

I'm aware of its run. I'm also aware of the bizarre cult that was begging for its recreation at MTV, having forgotten what the original was like. There was no goddamned "extreme metal" on Headbangers Ball in 1987. None. The only time it ever crossed over and showed primarily thrash/death/power metal was for a short 2 year span between 91-92, before grunge became the primary video source.

This made me laugh pretty hard. This is complete and utter bullshit as well. I suppose those tapes I have with Overkill, Testament, Morbid Angel, Obituary, Exodus, Annihilator ect.. and the like is conisdered glam metal eh? But then why would I expect someone to comprehend this when they can't add and subtract.

I don't know what is worse, the people that run around stating that Korn, Metallica and Pantera are the greatest metal bands that walked the earth. Or those that run around thinking its so cool to listen to the oooohhhhh soooo satanic 'BOO' Dissection, Merciful Fate, and King Diamond and the NSBM bands and try to claim this is the only 'real' metal. I love it when they come off with this claim of how gay and gimmicky the hair metal was. Yet the whole corpse paint, leather, spikes, hammers, and axes, oh and pigs blood are the real deal. (Too bad Alice Cooper, KISS, and Venom did it first) Oh yes and lets not forget that these same people that can listen to the most incoherant vocals of Mayhem and the rest, yet can't appreciate COF a truely all around talented band. Musically, lyrically, and very unique sounding vocals.

But, you can always spot these two types of people I just mentioned...is typically known as a poseur and 9 times out of 10 the same ones that claim Nirvana are metal, knowing full well Kurt couldn't play a guitar if his life depended on it.

Yeah, the New England Metalfest is catering to youngin's and beneath you, but you'll go to Ozzfest? Uh-HUH. Dude/dudette, prior to that, the last show I went to was Mercyful Fate at Jaxx, outside Richmond. Even for a total mullet fanbase headliner, it was 75% people under 21.

hhmm that is a shame eh? In Indiana with Iron Maiden headlining, Sabbath and Ozzy never even came out, there was a tremendous amount of older metal fans.

[Nepenthe]

Thought these were pretty funny. Although I like Immortal's stuff. I also love COF and Dimmu Borgir. But anyone that can tell me that hair metal was gimmicky and gay and seriously turn around and say this is the 'real' deal and the only true metal is a moron.

Thorny? ;D

[Nepenthe]

But hey, I like these.

[zorndeslammes]

I guess you really can't grasp Overkill's Old School off RELIXIV can you? Thats ok I know sometimes these concepts are hard for people to grasp. I was there, I know what people wore to concert during the 80's. Class of 84 here.

I understand it entirely. So what bands were out wearing Members Only jackets to metal shows in 1986? Faith Or Fear? Forbidden? Testament?

You mention Korn here but I was talking about the 80's. You never did answer my question, how old are you? Again, I was there.

If you were there, tell me; when in the 80s was it cool to wear parachute pants? Hell, when was it cool to wear parachute pants to metal shows ?

And this has got to be the topper foaming out from you yet. Only the most influential and most covered band in the history of metal. No heavy metal artist or real self respecting metal fan would come of with such tripe.

I have no problem telling the truth. How many remasters do you need? First, new cases. Then digipacks. Then sleeved cases. To say nothing about live albums, of which they've had about 5 billion. I know plenty of "self respecting metal fans" who couldn't care less about Maiden today.

This made me laugh pretty hard. This is complete and utter bullshit as well. I suppose those tapes I have with Overkill, Testament, Morbid Angel, Obituary, Exodus, Annihilator ect.. and the like is conisdered glam metal eh? But then why would I expect someone to comprehend this when they can't add and subtract.

Sure, you can watch Exodus videos....after sitting through the Crue, Poison, Dokken, Extreme, Guns And Roses, Faster Pussycat, etc. And like I said, take away 91-92 (thrash's short lived height of commercial success) and you've got some short segments of "underground bands" with 1 1/2 hours of commercial glam metal with the occasional Maiden or Priest video thrown in the rotation. Not wholly different than the Headbangers Ball of today, which keeps the more caustic stuff at the end and puts name acts and interviews in the first two hours.

I don't know what is worse, the people that run around stating that Korn, Metallica and Pantera are the greatest metal bands that walked the earth. Or those that run around thinking its so cool to listen to the oooohhhhh soooo satanic 'BOO' Dissection, Merciful Fate, and King Diamond and the NSBM bands and try to claim this is the only 'real' metal. I love it when they come off with this claim of how gay and gimmicky the hair metal was. Yet the whole corpse paint, leather, spikes, hammers, and axes, oh and pigs blood are the real deal.

Its not my fault Poison sucked. Don't blame me because they dressed like women and their songs sounded like a third rate New York Dolls.

(Too bad Alice Cooper, KISS, and Venom did it first) Oh yes and lets not forget that these same people that can listen to the most incoherant vocals of Mayhem and the rest, yet can't appreciate COF a truely all around talented band. Musically, lyrically, and very unique sounding vocals.

A) Mayhem sucks, and currently they're as guilty of the same overblown, masturbatory songwriting that Cradle Of Filth is. Hellhammer sounds like glitched out drum machine with his use of tape and triggers.

B) I don't care how much talent is in COF or how well they play instruments. Their songs suck and are totally unlistenable.

But, you can always spot these two types of people I just mentioned...is typically known as a poseur and 9 times out of 10 the same ones that claim Nirvana are metal, knowing full well Kurt couldn't play a guitar if his life depended on it.

People who listen to Mayhem usually think Nirvana was metal? HAHAHA. Right. Go to Metal-Archives and say that.

PS: Nirvana had two guitarists on Bleach. Kurt played rhythm.

PPS: Being able to sweep pick isn't that impressive. Writing a good song is. Oddly, most who are really good at the former fail miserably at the latter.

hhmm that is a shame eh? In Indiana with Iron Maiden headlining, Sabbath and Ozzy never even came out, there was a tremendous amount of older metal fans.

Congratulations, Indiana. Or something.







[/quote]

[rockysigman]

zorndeslammes said:

PS: Nirvana had two guitarists on Bleach. Kurt played rhythm.

Sorry to jump in here, but I just wanted to correct you on this real quick. There's another guitarist listed, but Cobain was the only one who actually played on the album. The other dude was a friend of theirs who put up the money for the studio time to record it, so they listed him as a band member because they weren't sure if they'd ever actually pay the guy back.

[Nepenthe]

If you were there, tell me; when in the 80s was it cool to wear parachute pants? Hell, when was it cool to wear parachute pants to metal shows ?

~~Here's to the Old School didn't matter if you looked cool~~

Why do I have to repeat myself so much? Are you stoned?

And like I said, take away 91-92 (thrash's short lived height of commercial success)

HUH

OK. I am completely and thoroughly convinced you are a hopeless case.

[Nepenthe]

Here ya go Thorny, a really nice parody surrounding the 'whole scene' (looks like parody of the 90's to me - goth and metal) and the downfall of society in general. I really like this band, Deathstars, we have their first album. Ex members of Dissection, Ophthalamia and Swordmaster.

Check out the new video for Cyanide
www.nuclearblast.de/events/deathstars/

[zorndeslammes]

~~Here's to the Old School didn't matter if you looked cool~~

Why do I have to repeat myself so much? Are you stoned?

I'm sorry, you mean to tell me that Overkill spoke for the entire, fractured metal scene? I'm sure looking cool didn't matter to Thunder.

So why don't you tell me where and who was wearing these parachute pants "back in the day"? Hell, show me a single promo photo or cite a single album cover that shows a band or their fans wearing them, and I won't harp on it.

HUH

OK. I am completely and thoroughly convinced you are a hopeless case.

The commercial height of thrash metal was 1991-1992. Metallica's Black Album, Megadeth's Countdown To Extinction, Anthrax's Persistence of Time (a second half of 1990 album that was supported heavily by a 1991 tour with Slayer)...all of which being the top selling albums by those acts, often by huge margins. 1986/1987 may have been the creative peak, but the money was made in 91/92.

[skvorisdeadsorta]

I'm so sick of people saying that Cobain was a terrible guitar player. It's so snobby and stupid to claim just because some guy didn't pull off a ton of artificials or blaze through mixolydian scales at the speed of light the guy couldn't play. Yeah, alot of those metal guys know their scales, but how many of them know about good songwriting? And if Nirvana was so un-metal and un-cool and so poseur, how do you explain Dave Grohl's Probot? Just a coincidence or afterthought of him hanging out with Queens of the Stone Age? Right. Right.

[Galactus]

Metal fans have an irrational hatred for Nirvana, they blame them for metal not being the mainstream any more...even though at the time metal had become pretty crappy. Even metal fans admit much of mainstream metal's peek was in the mid to late eighties yet they still bitch about Nirvana like they just swooped down and convinced everyone to stop listening to metal one day. It was a trend that passed, like all trends do. Nirvana came and went...we some how got lost in the nu-metal revolution, quite frankly I couldn't be more glad that died off...

Maiden kicks ass. They're not quite shilling at the level Kiss is, but I understand you're point. I really don't need another live version of Fear Of The Dark or Number Of The Beast.

[zorndeslammes]

ded said:

Metal fans have an irrational hatred for Nirvana, they blame them for metal not being the mainstream any more...even though at the time metal had become pretty crappy. Even metal fans admit much of mainstream metal's peek was in the mid to late eighties yet they still bitch about Nirvana like they just swooped down and convinced everyone to stop listening to metal one day. It was a trend that passed, like all trends do. Nirvana came and went...we some how got lost in the nu-metal revolution, quite frankly I couldn't be more glad that died off...

Maiden kicks ass. They're not quite shilling at the level Kiss is, but I understand you're point. I really don't need another live version of Fear Of The Dark or Number Of The Beast.

The timeframe being what it was, 1993/1994 (when grunge and alternative fully burst into the mainstream) were the most productive years for a lot of underground metal acts. Death metal had its best commercial years in that time frame, Chaos AD by Sepultura, Urban Discipline/State Of The World Address by Biohazard, Burn My Eyes by Machine Head, and River Runs Red by Life Of Agony sold TONS. Way more than they would in the latter half of the 90s. In fact, Burn My Eyes ended up going gold.

Elsewhere, thrash had run its course, with most bands releasing really bad albums (Exodus), breaking up (Forbidden, Vio-Lence, Whiplash), or disappearing on long tours (Metallica, Megadeth), not to return with another album for significant periods of time. Glam's time in the sun permanently ended, as the excess of the 80s gave way to the cynicism of the early 90s, and the cock rockers of the time went into hibernation for the next decade, only to return around 1999 for retro tour packages. Grunge really had nothing to do with it. Metal's dormancy after 1994 had to do with the lack of focused direction in the scene and a serious drop in quality for most bands in followup releases.

And I don't need any more Eddie figurines,barstools, mugs, leather jackets, bathrobes, shoe laces, fridge magnets, or pencil cases (I didn't make ANY of that stuff up). Nor should anyone else.

[Thorngrub]

You think of the 'black album' as "commercial thrash" - yer kiddin, right?
"commercial metal" is absolutely as far as I'd consider it, myself.

[Galactus]

That's sorta splitin' hairs there thorny. I'd say at the time it'd still be fair to consider Metallica a thrash band even if TBA wasn't.

[Thorngrub]

ded said:

That's sorta splitin' hairs there thorny. I'd say at the time it'd still be fair to consider Metallica a thrash band even if TBA wasn't.

No, no, and no! Sure,

was a bay area thrash band, just like their contemporaries in Exodus, Death Angel, and the like.

But I'd have to say that the Metallica that gave us the Black Album . . . well I don't need to convince anyone that they had descended a few notches from bona-fide "thrash" music to a more commercial straight up metal sound. (Thanks, Bob Rock)

Bands like Kreator, even psychopunk thrashers like The Accused, D.R.I, Slayer of course, Suicidal Tendencies, there's your thrash bands. And yes, Metallica will forever be remembered as a thrash band *for their first 4 albums only*, and that may be a tough fact to face for fans who've hung in there, I'm not dissing on em, I think they managed to turn into a pretty potent *blues/metal* outfit (screw "St Anger", the one thing Metallica was NEVER meant to be was any sort of "wannabe-nu-metal schtick", they shoulda stuck to their LOAD bluesy style if you ask me), but enough about them, there is just NO WAY the Black Album can be considered to be "thrash", at least not in my book.

I don't know, sure they're still "Metallica" but then again anyone could point out that after Cliff . . . well let me just put it this way:

Metallica, R.I.P. [THE "THRASH"-ERA METALLICA, THAT IS]

[Thorngrub]

All that is only to say that Metallica can no longer be considered as a thrash band.