Skvor's House of Metal

[Galactus]

No, you're right...which is why I put "at the time" at the begining. TBA isn't entirely outside the relm of what they had previously done...only slicker and not very good. In any case that's not even the point. The point is that whatever you want to call it the decline on metal was caused by it's own commercialism not Nirvana.

[Thorngrub]

That I agree with . . . anyone who goes around pointing fingers at a band like Nirvana for causing some decline in their coveted view is really just victim to a negative way of thinking.

They can point that fuckin' finger up their ass.

[skvorisdeadsorta]

Nirvana killed...........blah blah blah. That's all I have to say about that. It's just a bunch of blah blah blah.

[Nepenthe]

Aren't you confusing the people that make these claims? I believe there are quite a few more fans of Nirvana and 'BIO' writers that make these claims. The ole 'Nirvana changed the state of music forever' I believe......but in what respect? MTV and mainstream radio?

The problem most metal fans and bands had with it was it didn't belong on Headbangers Ball. I mean it got heavy rotation during the day as it was. As for the glam metal, well there were way way too many clones running around that again MTV insisted on playing in heavy rotation for awhile during the day, before grunge came into the mainstream. And then a some of glam bands that didn't belong on the ball either. But as for grunge 'killing' metal nah never really happened except referring to the mainstream of radio and MTV. I never even watched MTV except when the Ball was on, and the Ball is whatever MTV made it. Started out great then slowly evolved into more and more garbage glam and eventually grunge. This is NOT the fault of metal bands this is the fault of MTV. But there was a lot of good metal that came out in the 90's. Just wasn't being played in the mainstream.

I don't agree with the earlier statement that the thrash bands (except for Metallica) coming out with shitty albums. Nor do I buy this shit that thrash only had two good years of success, 91-92, unless of course you are ONLY referring to mainstream sources. And even then thats a load of shit because they were played on radio in the 80's. The Metal radio stations that later changed their formats. These bands sold albums all through the 80's and enjoyed a very large fan base, and they STILL do. They were making good music, it just ceased to be played on Headbangers Ball anymore and the radio stations changed their formats to go with the flow. Of course you still had your late night radio metal shows that played some really good music and we STILL have that to this day.

Zonder you really do not know what you are talking about. You seem to base everything on commercial success. You contradict yourself left and right. And I have no clue why you are bitching about the Iron Maiden collectibles. I don't understand the problem you have with this in the first place, the fans love to collect band memorabilia. Some people collect baseball cards, comic books ect.. OTHERS collect band memorabilia. I could understand it if Maiden wasn't making any new albums or touring, like say KISS is in part pulling (no new music) yet they still are making KISS dolls and KISS condoms, and now KISS coffins, and charging fans $1000 for a backstage pass. Hey I love KISS but this is a bit much.

And btw Maiden has only had 5 live albums in a time frame of what? 25 years? unless you count the Beast over Hammersmith that is ONLY available through this box set that I own.

Or 1983 Brain Damage Tour of Europe which I don't think you can even buy in the US anymore.

I really fail to see your point here. There was a time in the late 90's when I couldn't find ANY of Maiden's cds in the record stores, while I was trying to replace all of my cassettes. Then they remastered them and with their reuniting, they were available again. Not everyone uses the NET to make music purchases (especially young kids). HOW else do you expect to get the music out there to new fans? Plus a lot of Maiden's remastered cds have computer interacted videos on them, you know they are really giving the fans a bit more for their money with this.

[Nepenthe]

The main problem I had with grunge was the pseudo anti rock/anti mainstream message and the lack of talent. Yes Kurt in his bras and yellow ball gown on Headbangers Ball, his oh so tough instrument trashing. Yes THIS was all KURT'S OWN attention getting tactics yet he was so against mainstream and glam. Utter bullshit.

I have the same problem with pseudo goth, nu metal, hardcore, mallcore, metalcore and the fans that take themselves and the bands WAY to seriously.

AT LEAST the glam bands admit they were out to have as much fun as possible, be as outlandish as possible, and having a blast with the partying and groupies. God knows Kurt picked a real winner there, ilk...not too mention the drugs in the grunge scene.

[RocDoc]

So Metallica 'changed' so what....there was always Testament to show the way...

[Nepenthe]

Hell yeah! Just picked up their Live in London dvd. \m/

[zorndeslammes]

First, with Maiden: Of their last 9 "original releases" since 1993, four of them are live discs (Live at Donnington, Rock In Rio, Death On The Road, and A Real Live Dead One). Since reuniting with Bruce Dickinson, they've released as many live discs and more boxed sets (of which, there's been four) of old material than new full length albums. The albums have been rereleased and reissued FOUR times in the last 7 years. There's also been SIX all new DVD sets released since 2001. Numbers speak for themselves.

The problem most metal fans and bands had with it was it didn't belong on Headbangers Ball. I mean it got heavy rotation during the day as it was. As for the glam metal, well there were way way too many clones running around that again MTV insisted on playing in heavy rotation for awhile during the day, before grunge came into the mainstream. And then a some of glam bands that didn't belong on the ball either. But as for grunge 'killing' metal nah never really happened except referring to the mainstream of radio and MTV. I never even watched MTV except when the Ball was on, and the Ball is whatever MTV made it. Started out great then slowly evolved into more and more garbage glam and eventually grunge. This is NOT the fault of metal bands this is the fault of MTV. But there was a lot of good metal that came out in the 90's. Just wasn't being played in the mainstream.

Grunge killed glam in the same way metalcore and melodic death metal killed nu-metal: it erased it from clubs, radio, and the popular lexicon. Quiet Riot and Dokken were playing clubs to 150 people after playing arenas 5 years before. That means people who were listening to it stopped completely and were listening to something else: probably Nirvana, Soundgarden, etc.

I don't agree with the earlier statement that the thrash bands (except for Metallica) coming out with shitty albums. Nor do I buy this shit that thrash only had two good years of success, 91-92, unless of course you are ONLY referring to mainstream sources. And even then thats a load of shit because they were played on radio in the 80's. The Metal radio stations that later changed their formats. These bands sold albums all through the 80's and enjoyed a very large fan base, and they STILL do. They were making good music, it just ceased to be played on Headbangers Ball anymore and the radio stations changed their formats to go with the flow. Of course you still had your late night radio metal shows that played some really good music and we STILL have that to this day.

I explained that the two peak years of commercial success were 91 and 92, and that the peak year of creative success was 86. Its in english. Try reading.

As for thrash still having a good sized fanbase, LOL at that. The scene was killed dead by death metal because death metal did everything thrash did but with greater intensity, technicality, and with fewer stylistic limitations. A band like Kreator would play to a couple thousand people, and by 1997, they were lucky to get 300 stateside. Most bands broke up and disappeared. Those that stayed often released generic or mediocre albums (Kreator is an example of that, as is Overkill, Destruction, etc). Exodus' reunion tour in 1997 was a flop.

[Galactus]

In the mid 90's most metal bands either made a clear attempt to become more commercial (ie less metal) or they ran as far away from it as possible...that's mostly the same thing that happens to any trend. There is no one to "blame" for the decline of metal.

Also the "lack of talent" bit is bullshit, so they didn't play solos or write 7 minute epics. Musicianship isn't about showing off. I like a good wankfest as much as the next guy, but I like it more when musicians show restraint and just play what's right for the song. Dave Grohl has proven to be an extremely talented musician even in metal. Sean Kinny and Matt Cameron are two of the most talented drummers from the era, period. Mike McCready can noodle beside 90% of those guys and like or not Cobain was a good songwriter....it was a shift in focus. Iron Maiden is great band but individually none of those guys are exceptional musicians, they play music that is more complicated then your average rock song but this doesn't by default make them better musicians.

[zorndeslammes]

In the mid 90's most metal bands either made a clear attempt to become more commercial (ie less metal) or they ran as far away from it as possible...that's mostly the same thing that happens to any trend. There is no one to "blame" for the decline of metal.

I think the issue was more than metal as a genre of music always fractured and showed clear lines of demarcation when new subgenres took over from the old and became the preeminent style (the blues rock infused with arena rock to power metal to thrash to death), and come 1995/96, there was a serious split in the scene in terms of where the future lied. There was black metal on one hand, the gothic/melodic/whatever doom on the other, and musical regurgitation if you bore straight through. You had Cryptopsy and Neurosis starting to really do some new stuff, but no one had heard it yet (in Cryptopsy's case, they wouldn't see wide release until after the scene was pretty much dead), and melodic death metal was being shitted on by the old school death metal fans who wanted nothing but brutality at the time, and saw MDM as a sort of "compromise" with the industry to take a genre that had no commercial value and try to sell records. So that's why metal basically fell apart after 1994 and had a long lull up until around 1998 or so, domestically. After 1998, a lot of European bands made their first trips over, the metal fests really turned it up a notch and new ones burst out, and some fringe labels signed the bands that would make them names.

[Thorngrub]

[Thorngrub]

TONIGHT. It'll be the last Ibex show for a long bad moon. Man it is going to be sick. The turnout better be good. I need to bag me a metal chick something fierce. Otherwise I'm gettin shitfaced

[Thorngrub]

Show up @ Todd's BAr & Grill tonight bitches and you'll seem some brutality

[Thorngrub]

I dare you

[Thorngrub]

My black metal life came full circle on Sat nite, when my freinds in Terra Noir and Ibex Throne got to open for LA's own NokturnE. It was to be at Todd's BAr & Grille, but there was a last-minute venue change (typical), and we were re-directed to this truly quaint little bar called The Dragon's Lair.

Let me tell you, the sweetest old lady checked us in, making us painstakingly have to fill out the membership cards. I couldn't help thinking "If only she knew what they were all in for", and then I headed upstairs to where everyone was gathering and drinking, preparing for the brutal onslaught which lay ahead.

I noticed immediately 2 things: the place was totally medieval -themed, one room w/this endless enchanted forest wallpaper, and another one with dungeon stone wallpaper. The other thing was, by the looks of the bartender, we had stumbled upon a genuine little D&D bar right out of Thieve's World. I wouldn't have been surprised if the bartender had only 1 thumb. Instead, I took note of his wicked coiled dragon ring, and recognized a true old school D&Der, and possibly even an SCA member.

I walked over to Josh - ("Rocker" of Ibex) - and I was "Man check this place out, is it sweet or what?" and he was all "Dude yeah, this place is perfect" and I was "Kind of a charming place to have to destroy" and he laughed saying "Nah we're gunna take it pretty easy tonight" and I LOL'd, "Oh right, Ibex is going for the easy listening set".

Turns out, I've a feeling that my buddies of The Horde here in Salt Lake are suffering some growing pains. They obviously need to try and find a solid relationship with a venue that doesn't kick us all out eventually and ban us from ever coming back. That's the way it usually goes.