MOST ANNOYING COMMERCIALS

[Kensterberg]

Well, whatever one may think of the merits of Bruce's last two albums, one can hardly call them calculated cash cows. Devils and Dust is basically a country/folk album, which got zero airplay anywhere, and The Seeger Sessions is an overtly folk/bluegrass album (which is quite hit and miss IMHO, but is certainly unlike anything else The Boss has ever done). The closest thing Bruce has done to a cash-in in the last, oh say fourteen or so years, would be The Rising, but I don't think any American can hear that record post-9/11 and doubt that Bruce's heart was completely in that recording. It was hardly a commercial sell-out, rather it was a record that Bruce needed to make and one that a lot of people needed to hear. Even on the 2000 NYC concert souvenier, Bruce opted for a collection of album cuts (Prove It All Night, Out in the Street, etc.), tunes from Tracks (My Love Will Not Let You Down), unreleased material (41 Shots) and dramatically reworked versions of the best-known songs in the set-list (The River as accordian-based folk tune; Born in the U.S.A. as a slow, blistering blues). Born to Run is about the only cut on this that a casual fan would be likely to recognize, and it's not even listed on the sleeve!

If Bruce has sold-out for the sake of making commercial product, he's done a piss-poor job of it!

[Kensterberg]

As for Johnny Cougar Mellenhead ... god, when he's bad he's awful. Absolutely unlistenable. And when he's mediocre, he's still not very good. Now when he's good, he can be very, very good. But those moments add up to about a single cd, maybe two (and that's being generous), over a 25+ year career. That song they're using in the Chevy ads seems like it's somewhere between mediocre and bad Mellenhead.

I can see where someone who has only heard the radio tracks from either artist might prefer Mellencamp to Springsteen, but go a little deeper into either's catalog and it's obvious why Bruce is The Boss. (And BTW, Bob Seeger blows Mellenhead back into Indiana. Seeger's Live Bullet is better than anything in John's catalog, while Night Moves and Stranger in Town are the recordings Mellencamp wished he'd been able to make).

[Kensterberg]

strawman said:

JAC...On the Springsteen note...trust me 1984 was getting on in his career... I had almost every Springsteen up to Born in The USA (Asbury Park, Wild and Innocent, Born to Run, Darkness, The River, Nebraska) and then along came that monstrosity of an album....yes, it put me off Springsteen for life...I still revisit the albums up to Darkness, but yeah I don't much care for Bruce...any more

I've got to confess that even in my Springsteen fanaticism, Born in the U.S.A. represented a bit of a stumbling block. It just seemed too slick, and too calculated, to really get my unabashed support. I loved the title track (in part b/c I recognized right away that it wasn't a simple-minded anthem, but rather an indictment of the breakdown of the social contract in our country, esp. vis a vis Viet Nam vets), liked the 12 inch mix of Dancing in the Dark better than the single (perhaps b/c it toned down the synths and gave more space to Clarence's sax), loved Bobby Jean, Cover Me, and My Hometown, and was pretty blase on the rest.

I like the live versions of the other songs more than I do the studio cuts, but some of them (particularly I'm On Fire) have just never really hit for me. I respect Bruce's songwriting on I'm On Fire, but (pardon the pun) the track leaves me cold. I can't believe he didn't include Pink Cadillac or My Love Will Not Let You Down instead of I'm Going Down or even No Surrender. There was a better record (for the hardcore Springsteen fan, anyway) left in the vaults than the one that was released.

[JACkory]

Sure Born In The USA has a couple of duds on it, but really not all that many. I don't know why so many people hate on it so much, because the good stuff is REALLY GOOD. And then next thing you know he puts out one of his masterpieces, Tunnel of Love. Before that, even, he released the 3 disc live album, and though I rarely listen to it these days I have to acknowledge it's excellence.
I can see how someone might not care for Human Touch and Lucky Town, which despite containing some great songs, are the most inconsistant records he's ever released. And I suppose not everyone thinks as highly of The Ghost of Tom Joad as I do, but trust me, it's an understated work of brilliance. And then you get The Rising, an excellent tribute to the fallen and the survivors of 9/11.
I'm well aware that Springsteen was deep into his careeer by the time Born In The USA came out, I was only dividing it up into chronological order and I stand by my statement that pre-Born In The USA puts a cap on the EARLY Springsteen.

[JACkory]

I love "No Surrender". Just for the intro and ending, if nothing else. "We learned more from a three minute record, baby, than we ever did in school"...what a great line that is.
Must remain on Born In the USA! Can't really say the same of "I'm Going Down", although it's humourous quality is endearing.
If you're going to cull songs from that album, let 'em be "Glory Days", "Darlington County" and maybe even "Dancing In The Dark".

[Kensterberg]

Here's how I'd break Bruce's career down, myself:

Early Springsteen:
Greetings
The Wild, the Innocent and the E Street Shuffle
various unreleased sessions, the pre-Born to Run stuff on Tracks

Coming of Age:
Born to Run
Darkness on the Edge of Town
The River
Nebraska
Contemporary unreleased sessions and cuts from Tracks, and Live at the Hammersmith Odeon

Rock and Roll Superstar:
Born in the U.S.A.
Live: 1975-'85 (while this has recordings over a ten year period, it really does represent Bruce at the height of his success)
Tunnel of Love (Musically this is hardly of a piece with Born in the U.S.A., but it does represent the first -- and still most coherent -- reaction Bruce has made on the effect of that enormous fame on his life and relationships).

Post E-Street Band:
Human Touch
Lucky Town (Both of these have some great moments, but they are also -- as JAC noted -- among the spottiest things he's ever released)
MTV UnPlugged (Which shows just how captivating a showman Bruce can be even without the E Streeters)
The Ghost of Tom Joad (I'm not a fan of this record, but it's about as uncommercial as a major label album can be, and I understand why some love it).

Later Career Consolidation and Expansion:
Greatest Hits (the previously unreleased E Street Band stuff represented Bruce beginning to come to terms with his career and the facts of his successes and failures, so it belongs here even if Tom Joad was released after it).
Live in NYC
The Rising (As good as anything he's ever done).
Devils and Dust
The Seeger Sessions (While I don't think either of these are perfect albums, I commend Bruce for stepping outside his comfort zone, and for actually releasing this last one rather than having it sit in the vaults until he retired or something. Also, in some ways the Hammersmith Odeon show belongs here as well, as Bruce finally stops looking at his early work under a musical perfectionist microscope and appreciates it on its own merits).

[Kensterberg]

jackory said:

I love "No Surrender". Just for the intro and ending, if nothing else. "We learned more from a three minute record, baby, than we ever did in school"...what a great line that is.
Must remain on Born In the USA! Can't really say the same of "I'm Going Down", although it's humourous quality is endearing.
If you're going to cull songs from that album, let 'em be "Glory Days", "Darlington County" and maybe even "Dancing In The Dark".

Yeah, there are lines in No Surrender that I just love. I don't think it's as good as My Love Will Not Let You Down, though. However, what I find when I try to cut Born in the U.S.A. up and still keep it a single LP, is that it's damn near impossible to do! I always wind up with a double album, keeping most or all of the original and adding in a bunch of the stuff that was left in the vault (or consigned to b-sides, like the gorgeous Shut Out the Light, which IMHO is a necessary counter-point to Born in the U.S.A.).

[Galactus]

I love the songs on Born In The USA, but it has very dated production. Those songs kick ass live...Working on The Highway, Darlington County and Bobby Jean became some of my favorites after hearing them live. IMO BitUSA is the only album you can really even compare to Mellencamp too, it's very 80's radio rock...it's still better then anything he's done though...

[strat-0]

Kool, I agree that Mellencamp has come up with some very strong melodies. I think "I Need a Lover that Won't Drive me Crazy" is one of his best. Several great hooks in there. Particularly the buildup in the intro. He's just written some of the stupidest lyrics ever. Just dumb, and full of awful "imagery" and malapropisms. For example (and this is just one):

"... And there's a woman... in the kitchen... cleaning up evening slop [?!!] ... And he looks at her and says, 'Hey, Dahlin', I remember when you could ...stop a clock..."

Um, why didn't somebody tell him that to "stop a clock" means UGLY? As in, "a face that would stop an eight-day clock." And even if you meant it as a compliment, it's still a shitty thing to say!

But I must admit a grudging respect for him -- perhaps it's a bit of professional envy on my part.

And now, I am compelled to post my Johhny Cougar story again. Those of you who've already seen it, please feel free to scroll on by (sorry Rocky!)...

"The time I saw “Johnny Cougar” was a day I’ll never forget. I can’t quite recall whether my high school buddy and I cut school for the afternoon or whether it was a Saturday – probably the former, but at any rate, we went into downtown Terre Haute, Indiana to knock around a bit. “Downtown” Terre Haute is not much of a metropolis (then or now). It’s mainly a couple of rows of buildings along either side of Wabash Avenue, none more than about five stories high, and all connected to each other – you know the small-town type. My buddy and I knew every nook and cranny, every unused and accessible building, room, and alley (also at ISU). One of our hobbies was to go to these places and smoke weed. Also included in the game was to climb fire escapes to access the roofs of the buildings (and smoke weed). Once you get up there, you can go from one to the other, Spiderman-like, and view the city from above.

On this particular day, we each dropped a couple of tabs of purple microdot and we were just milling around waiting to get off. We went into the local headshop, Headstone Friends, to pass a little time reading the underground comix and looking at bongs and posters, etc. Just when things were getting a little wilted around the edges, one of the employees of this fine establishment came up to us and asked us if we wanted some free tickets to the Johnny Cougar show that night. We had known about the show at the Indiana Theater (one of those beautiful Depression-era theaters that was also one of our rooftop hangouts) for a couple of weeks, but we weren’t about to pay the exorbitant price of four bucks to see some no-name guy from Champaign, IL. Of course, we were happy to attend for free, so we graciously accepted the tickets and went on about our business. Acid being what it is, we soon felt the need to go outside and get some fresh air.

We went out and took to the rooftops to kill some time until the show. As we looked around the city from our elevated vantage point, the sun was getting lower in the sky. A beautiful Indiana sunset was approaching just as we were starting to peak. As we looked around, we noticed thousands of black starlings flying around everywhere. Moreover, as the sun sank lower, they began to assemble into groups, hovering around the many commercial chimneys that punctuated the skyline. They swirled around these chimneys in ever-tightening circles, huge living black tornadoes, and they each took their turn diving into them to roost for the night. This went on for minutes – with each pass, a few more would drop in, and their squawking and chattering was deafening. Soon, the sun was gone, and we looked around the sky, and there was not one bird left flying, not a single sound, just a silent, empty sky. My buddy and I just looked at each other in wasted wonder.

But now it was nearly time for the show. So, we gathered ourselves and our wits, as best we could, and descended back down into the real world. We made our way over to the theater and milled in. As it turned out, they were giving away the tickets for good reason – hardly anybody had bought them and “the show must go on.” So, when the show opened, “Johnny” asked everybody to move on down front, and everybody obliged.

It was a really good show – at that time, Mellencamp was produced by Mainman, Bowie’s company, and he was all glam and leather – pointy collar and studs, you know. My, how things change! He had a great band and the guitar player was hot, though. We sure enjoyed it, anyhow! And we didn’t need to worry about trying to light up in the Indiana. After the show, we went to my basement pad and partied on into the wee hours with many of our friends, as per usual.

So, that was my introduction to “Johnny Cougar / John Cougar / John Cougar Mellencamp / John Mellencamp.” Possibly the worst lyricist of our time.

What a day, though… Man, what a day!"

[kool]

So Mellencamp has written some crap lyrics. Who hasn't? Bono sang a song on his last album about sniffing a baby's head. Jagger's written his share of stinkers. And yes, even the Boss has written some garbage. "Pink Cadillac" and that "57 Channels and nothing on" come to mind.

Even though Mellencamp may have written more than his fair share of stupid lyrics, there'll always be "Jackie Brown", one of the most moving songs I've ever heard. He's just unfortunate that he's not popular with critics who can see no wrong in the likes of Springsteen, U2, etc. but who'll condemn anything he does at the drop of a hat. It's almost like it's cool to bash him these days..

Poor John... but aint that America? It seems like it's always raining on his scarecrow. He's just a pop singer living in a small town looking for a little love and happiness in a peaceful world... ;D

[kool]

btw, strat, that sounds like one wild night you had there. Did you dance naked too?

[JACkory]

It's time to steer the discussion back to topic, and I have a new nominee for most annoying commercial...
All of those stupid Vonage commercials are driving me insane, and the main thing I hate about them is that awful "Woo-hooo woo-hoo-hoo" song they play in the background. God, I will be so glad when that campaign ends.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know the origin of that lame ditty? I'm thinking I've heard it before, that it's not just a jingle, but I'm not sure.
Anybody?

[Kensterberg]

I've got no idea who that is in the Vonage ads, but it definitely walks the line between catchy and annoying as hell.

But I'd rather see the ones that are just the music than the ones that have the guy talking about how Vonage "projects his business" etc. That one really bugs.

[rockysigman]

jackory said:

It's time to steer the discussion back to topic, and I have a new nominee for most annoying commercial...
All of those stupid Vonage commercials are driving me insane, and the main thing I hate about them is that awful "Woo-hooo woo-hoo-hoo" song they play in the background. God, I will be so glad when that campaign ends.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know the origin of that lame ditty? I'm thinking I've heard it before, that it's not just a jingle, but I'm not sure.
Anybody?

It used to be in a car commercial too. It's by the 5.6.7.8'.s. I think it's catchy as hell.

[Kensterberg]

I'd forgotten all about that Springsteen/Mellencamp discussion in this thread. And appropriately enough, I'm listening to a Springsteen bootleg right now!